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Thread: Isleton OPC races 10/03 & 10/04

  1. #11
    Administrator Marlee Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZOutlaw View Post
    Looks like Mike and Angie have a pretty good pit area...
    I was suprised to hear yesterday that Angie did not go!

    Who are the 5 45 drivers?


    Marlee Hill

  2. #12
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    I only have a point-and-shoot Canon......but here's some pictures from today. Steve (the driver of the 120 that blew over) was uninjured and the motor was running just an hour after this photo was taken. Dean's beautiful red Pughe needs a little woodwork and another new paint job!
    Attached Images Attached Images         

  3. #13
    Administrator Marlee Hill's Avatar
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    any results yet?


    Marlee Hill

  4. #14
    Jeff - UFL Racing sst45jefff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marleehill View Post
    I was suprised to hear yesterday that Angie did not go!

    Who are the 5 45 drivers?
    RJ West
    Jason Williams
    Jeff Schmitt
    Steve Dawe
    Warren West
    New guy - Roger ? #26

  5. #15
    Jeff - UFL Racing sst45jefff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZOutlaw View Post
    From: Mike Menter
    To: jeff conant
    Subject: Re: 2nd heat results
    Sent: Oct 3, 2009 10:46 PM

    45ss williams won

    Ss45 I think rj but there was some issues with bearing away
    RJ West & Jason Williams were penalized 1 lap for bearing away on the start and taking my lane.

    RJ was to the right of me on the starting line up & Jason was to the right of RJ. I was completely closed out of my lane with in 75' - 100' of the start before the commitment bouy.

    The Penalty was rescinded on RJ after he went to the judges stand to appeal the call.
    The penalty was upheld on Jason. The call was that Jason was the one that pushed RJ over into my lane causing the bearing away.

    The rule reads that you are to hold your lane on the start regardless if someone is trying to drive on your deck or into your lane so the domino effect doesn't happen. If you don't then you are also bearing away.

    RJ penalty getting rescinded and not Jason was a huge mistake in the interpretation of the rule. Both penalties should have stood or both should have been rescinded which could not be done since it was very obvious that there was bearing away on the start.

    To top it off the call was originally made and then when it was rescinded I was never notified that the call had been changed, so that I could file a protest in the allotted time frame.
    I heard through the grape vine.

    The race was a as good as could be expected for a first time race and the first time in a long time this club has put on a race. I commend them on how things went considering the logistics they had to deal with.

    As far as my first experience with the WTT it stunk of all the problems that we as a group have had to iron out in the WFLS series for the last 7 years to make it a fair and well run professional series.

    1. the series promoter/organizer was not even there to run his series and did not appoint anybody in his place.
    You would think that being the last series race of the season there would have been more due diligence.

    2. The local officials were rusty having not put on a race for years and they certainly did not know the series rules or format that was to be run. The sereis promoter did not even briefe them on the series rules or format. Especially the one that is always a problem. (bearing away on the start)

    3. The format morphed from what the sereis rule called for as the weekend progressed.
    I was not a sereis member so even though i was at a APBA race with an approved sereis format being run. I was not allowed a say or vote in the changing of the format for the weekend.

    Having traveled form Washington state to run this race and spending a large sum of money to do so. My cost per lap went way up by the time the weekend was over.

    Saturday was cut fro 2 - 10 lap heats to 2 - 5 lap heats due to weather conditions. (which was understandable)

    Sundays final was cut from a 20 or 25 lap heat to a 15 lap heat with some of the best racing water and weather you could ask for. With no apparent reason other than the guys that were also running 45ss decided they had run enough all ready.

    I don't see the WTT series running next year under it s current leadership.
    I certainly wont be running with them as it is currently being run.

  6. #16
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    Jeff,
    What page in the rule book and what rule number is it that says someone should crash into a boat theat veres into their lane on the start? However if it is bearing away that you are talking about, then the rule as stated in general racing rule16-1(you sahall not hinder a boat passing from either side) then when boat number 25 had to let off to avoid hitting the judges stand when he was trying to pass you you probably should have been called for something also. As for the start how could I bear away if we were sitting side by side on the dock , and when I had to take action to avoid an accident I had already established a legal overlap as stated in rule9-1 opc racing rules where an overlap from the outside is established when you can change lanes without contact with the overtaken boat which was you in this case being as we were stopped ,side by side on the start? However I still would like to know where this rule is that says you should crash instead of avoiding contact on the start.


    R.J.

  7. #17
    Mark Wimpee Jr. 721 Jr.'s Avatar
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    Default San Diego 2008

    This was the exact same call that started the WTT. When Chad was on my outside and came over (according to Brian Wilson) He was trying to avoid an accident to his right. The call against him stuck this a is similar situation. I dont know.... same call different officials I guess its at the officials discretion to overturn.

    Mark

  8. #18
    Jeff - UFL Racing sst45jefff's Avatar
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    Default WTT rules

    RJ - the rule below is the specific WTT rule that I am referring to Pretty much the same thing that the WFLS rule reads.

    Western Tunnel Tour 2009
    Technical Rules

    Starts: Each start will be a modified Le Mans start from the beach or a dock. During the start, if
    a driving violation occurs (overlap, bearing away, etc.) a one (1) lap penalty will be assessed. A
    lane change on the start or jump of the flag will result in a one (1) lap penalty and/or move to
    the end of the dock, at the discretion of the flag starter or beach representative.
    Any driver
    that feels a call has been made that is unjust may protest the call. A $50 fee which will be
    applied to the year-end fund will be charged. The Driver Rep and Chief Referee will review any
    video evidence together. After a review of sufficient video evidence, the Referee will determine
    if the call will stand or be overturned. If the ruling is overturned, no penalty or fee will apply.

    The overlap rule does not apply on the lemans start. You are to hold your lane to the commitment buoy. This has been stated & which buoy will be the commitment buoy at every drivers meeting before the race.

    I was called for the same bearing away on a start at another race and the referee specifically said that the rule is that you are to hold your lane to the commitment buoy and not let the other boat push you over or you will be called for bearing away also.
    I responded just as you did that I was trying to avoid being hit and was told that you have to hold your lane and take the bump or risk being called for bearing away.

    In my instance I was upset the same as you were but my penalty was not overturned as yours was. The inconsistency in the interpretation by the referees of a cut and dry rule is the issue.

    If you allow everybody to move over on the start before the commitment buoy to avoid being hit by another boat than you get guys who just go from lane 12 to lane 1 right of the dock and we all know how that ends up. Which is why the rule was established and enforced the way it is.

    It is the lesser of two evils. (a little bumping by a few boats instead of major crashes in the first turn.)

    As far as your brother and bearing way to the dock you know as well as I do and everybody else that that was a tight race course.
    As you said - if the overlap has not been established than it is up to interpretation as to what is bearing away to hinder another boat from passing.
    Maybe you should talk with you brother about the rule and how he applied it on me previously at the same place on the course.
    Warren and I did not seem to have any problems between the two of us about any bearing away.
    Warren seems to take it as well as he dishes it out.

  9. #19
    Bushlicker Driver rinker1080's Avatar
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    All these problems over a 5 boat race? RJ call me.. 910-581-0589
    Have some questions for you bro..

    Ashton Rinker
    Amsoil Racing
    Ashton Rinker #120

  10. #20
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    Jeff,

    The rule you quote says nothing about a second boat being involved in a lane change on the start run. In a perfect world ,yes we would all hold our lanes. However since the series rule doesn't say anything about avoiding contact,you would go to the apba rules which superseed series rules in the case of on course racing. Series rules would only superseed apba rules on protocol items such as fines,cameras, dress code ,etc. In your instance you were probaly right to avoid contact also. Did the ref show you the rule or did you look at the rule yourself? Referees usually do a good job ,however no call would ever ge overturned if they were always right. That is why we have drivers reps and rule books. As for going from lane 12 to 1 ,in the real world no one does that anyway. There was no bumping when I avoided contact and there was no BIG pileup in the first turn. Looks like it worked from a safety standpoint if that is what you were worried about. There were alot of hitches in the weekend , no doubt , but you might mention the tow money, low entry fees,prize money for series members,instead of just the bad things. If you dont like it,please don't discourage others that might read your horror storys about the series or the race. Private suggestions or doing something to help change it might be the way to go huh?

    R.J.

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