Dale Powell Sr. and Bob Montoya-Early Price Craft

[Skoontz]

With pleasure boats obtaining the speeds now that were unobtainable back in the 50/60s, the racers I have talked to say they believe that it is the reason for the lower racing memberships now. I say that you can not get the thrill in a fast pleasure boat that a runabout or hydro gives.
Ye Olde Desert Geezer Al

Al: Lets not discount the invention of the squirt gun propelled canoe. Those things are fast, available, now involved in racing, and financing available as well for the person who wants one but can't pay the 10K for one....Turn key....

[seacow]

With pleasure boats obtaining the speeds now that were unobtainable back in the 50/60s, the racers I have talked to say they believe that it is the reason for the lower racing memberships now. I say that you can not get the thrill in a fast pleasure boat that a runabout or hydro gives.
Ye Olde Desert Geezer Al

We have classes that are faster than pleasure boats but I wonder if they are really boats. A single person in an enclosed capsule with oxygen mask and very limited side and rear visibility says more "airplane" to me than it infers "boat".

I agree that there in no thrill like a hyrdo or racing runabout or even OPC, yet.....

The early stock runabouts were raced on the basis of equipment that was generally available to the public at the time. Granted that Mercury undermined that concept with the quicksilver lower unit. Even so, many people, racers and non-racers alike used stock runabouts not only for racing but also for fishing, cruising, etc.

In light of this history, it might be fair to assume that racing suffers because at least in stock classes, we are not racing what the public buys and uses on a day to day basis. I might even argue that since the newer craft are faster and safer, it would make sense to race them. Is cost a barrier? I think not. They are already purchased and being used. Some might opt to race them as well.

[smittythewelder]

No doubt the manufacturers would be happy if racers all used motors that carried their logos prominantly, on the sides of their heavy, bulky cowlings, and used the football-sized standard lower units (okay, I exagerate). But would this lead to more popularity of the Stock Outboard division? In fact, people already can race boats at motors seen in any marina: bass-boats, various OPCs, PWCs, etc., . . . .

[seacow]

No doubt you are correct. Lets just leave well enough alone and we will survive. It is certainly more sensible to use a rope starter, have no neutral or reverse in a runabout class and kneel as if in prayer to pilot your boat so you can achieve startling speeds in excess of 58 mph! The absence of manufacturers logos and cowlings will no doubt interest the remaining handful of spectators (about 80 spectators the stock nationals at Moses Lake) , particularly when they are told that this is a stock class. This "stock" sport is certain to grow when almost all its classes utilize motors that are not generally available, no longer manufactured, hybrid retrofits or are second hand castoffs from parimutuel racing in Japan. We can also expect that the overwhelming popularity of this situation in stock racing will continue to feed adequate graduates to the even more specialized racing classes.

[seacow]

....In fact, people already can race boats at motors seen in any marina: bass-boats, various OPCs, PWCs, etc., . . . .

Good point. If people race these they are stock outboards (except for pwc) and APBA should sanction those as stock races. I am not against the current stock outboard classes, it is just that the name is no longer correct. They could be called classic stock outboards and raced as nostalgia classes.

True stocks are needed in our sport. When stock stopped being truly stock, for a while, we had OPC which once meant outboard pleasure craft. It wasn't too many years before they changed to being outboard performance craft with the advent of the Molinari designs.

Today we have something close to stock with the California Sport C. It has your hated football gear shift lower unit an a small OPC hull but alas, one cannot buy a new motor for this class in the US and class winners pay many $ to have these motors modified as much as the permissive rules provide for.

The emerging 2 liter classic runabout is almost a good true stock class and it has a seat, real draft to the hull, electric starter, stable ride and gear shift - and the rigs exceed 80 mph. And you can take your mate, date or fishing pole on non-race weekends. Alas, the allowed motors are not made any more in an attempt to get achieve class affordability.

[Mark75H]

They could be called classic stock outboards and raced as nostalgia classes.

The nostalgia motors no longer run, Stock is now dominated by the Yamato imports, the upcoming Sidewinders and APBA Merc 2 stroke conversion.

I do agree, the name is no longer appropriate. It should be changed to something like Super Sport Racing.

[seacow]

The nostalgia motors no longer run, Stock is now dominated by the Yamato imports,.....I do agree, the name is no longer appropriate. It should be changed to something like Super Sport Racing.

We do agree in general. Super Sport racing seems like a very good moniker for the current "stock" classes.

About the Yamato imports. Even though they are still made new for parimutuel betting in Japan, I consider them to be nostalgia devices. They seem like the retro refrigerators and toasters. Kind-of reproductions of what used to be, with no cowls, no recoil or electric start with tank on top. Looking somewhat like a 1930s OMC alky motor. Yet somehow not as charming as an old Merc or older OMC. Have they progressed mechanically since the original designs were copied off the 1950s Mercs?

Even though the Yamato may be of current manufacture, it also does not seem to be truly a stock machine because one cannot go into a dealer in the US (except for Ric's) and buy a new or even a used one.

[Mark75H]

They have progressed dramatically since the 1950's Yamatos that were updates of KG7H's. A radical departure was made in the late 1960's and improvements were made roughly every 5 years.

[smittythewelder]

Well, we have strayed a bit from the original subject of articracer's thread, but maybe he won't mind a good arguement.

Sea Cow, when I was racing in the mid-60's (and knew articracer's dad and all the Montoyas) some in the sport were already complaining about the Stock division's irrelevance to what could be bought in your local marina. They waxed nostalgic for the good old days of the previous decade, when all of the Stock motors had last been produced. They complained about fully-decked runabouts that didn't have the (mostly imaginary) "utility" of the older Utility runabouts that had forward cockpits. They spoke fondly of the wildcatters who still had a "B Standard" class for 20" Mercs with the long fishing-motor towerhousing and club-like lower units.

But our out-of-date, not-really-"stock" classes must not have bothered too many others, because we rarely saw a race that didn't have elimination heats, even double eliminations, at LOCAL races, in, at minimum, the A and B hydroplane ("not really boats") classes. In fact, the LEAST popular stock class, with strictly regional appeal, and which we never saw in Reg. 10, was the 36 Class . . . for which you COULD buy a brand new motor at a dealership.

So, it appears to me that all of your objections (and I'm not saying they have no merit) would have pertained to the Stock racing scene 45 years ago, yet Stock racing then was in a state of high activity. Therefore, if Stock racing has scince declined toward being a tiny in-crowd activity, possibly it is due to some other factors than those you've suggested.

[seacow]

I agree that this thread has devolved from its original intent but it is interesting. We are now dealing with two issues. The first issue is that the term "stock" is not very accurate about what is now being raced.

The first race I ever entered was in BU. Because it was my first (but I came in last) I have good recall from my sometimes errant memory banks. The entries included a Water Witch, a Wizard, three KG7-H or Qs, a KG-4, a Martin 200 and three 20-H's. I would bet that all of those motors were at one time or another purchased at a local dealer. Even the Van Pelt I was driving was purchased used at a boat store.

The second issue is the decline of the sport. I also remember the days of frequent. elimination heats. They are gone and I agree with you that the primary cause of decline is not stock outboard equipment rules. I do not know if you would agree that the rules for stock although not responsible for the decline, may not be helpful in this regard. With regard to the club footed 36's they were a viable class in Reg 11 and 12 but like you say, not the most popular. In Reg 11 many but not all drivers were older fellows, not unlike the club-footed Sport C is today in that region. Before sometime in the 70s some of the allure of racing boats was that they were with some exceptions the fastest boats on the water. Now days the club-footed pleasure boats are faster. I think that we could all agree that there are a number of reasons for the sparse fields of drivers these days and most of them have been documented in one way or another in a variety of threads here on BRF.

On another topic that you hinted at, I do not view a hydro as a "boat" but I do like to see them at races. I have driven both and prefer runabouts. My recollection is that hydros were also used as pleasure craft in earlier days. They were kind of like the PWCs of today. A proportion of them were used exclusively for non-racing recreation.