V-8 Johnson and Eliminator 21 'Daytona

[Ron Hill]

This boat ran about 92 MPH with every prop we had. Then, we took the rev limiter off and it went 118 MPH...Rod Zapf and John Castelli drove it at the Parker Enduro.

[capnzee]

The Eliminator Daytona was a beautifule boat and it ran and handled very well after we worked until 3 A.M. in the morning "non-tripping" the chine on the left picklefork and adding a non-skid fin to the rear. Eliminators at the time had a reputation for dropping the nose and hooking in a tight left turn. With the alterations made to the hull and a L/U that had been "customized" by either Ron or Castelli the resulting combination had great handling characteristics. Coming out of the Bluewater turn. the prop shaft let go and I was able to "coast" to the beach. The Hill crew replaced the L/U in record time with a standard "offshore" unit by OMC (all we had) and that was the end of the race. Blow-out was so bad that we had to run the rest of the race at "half" throttle. Seems we may have finished 5th overall. Ron, your memory is better than mine, you can make the corrections to my story. Regardless, it was one of the best "rides" of my life-I always loved the Parker Enduro!

[Ron Hill]

The Eliminator Daytona was a beautiful boat and it ran and handled very well after we worked until 3 A.M. in the morning "non-tripping" the chine on the left picklefork and adding a non-skid fin to the rear. Eliminators at the time had a reputation for dropping the nose and hooking in a tight left turn. With the alterations made to the hull and a L/U that had been "customized" by either Ron or Castelli the resulting combination had great handling characteristics. Coming out of the Bluewater turn. the prop shaft let go and I was able to "coast" to the beach. The Hill crew replaced the L/U in record time with a standard "offshore" unit by OMC (all we had) and that was the end of the race. Blow-out was so bad that we had to run the rest of the race at "half" throttle. Seems we may have finished 5th overall. Ron, your memory is better than mine, you can make the corrections to my story. Regardless, it was one of the best "rides" of my life-I always loved the Parker Enduro!

The only thing I might add to your story, Rod, would be that the V-8's weight on the back, helped to keep the bow from dropping in the corners. I don't recall where we finished, becasue I was so pissed off about the OMC V-8 having the same size prop shaft as the V-6, and they broke on the V-6. I don't think we had a real shot at winning but breaking a prop shaft didn't help. Then, when we borrowed that gearcase from Second Effort, I didn't have a cotter pin , so I used a nail and the nail broke and let the prop come loose. It was a new nail but...

You may never have known how I got this boat but I will tell you:

I'm sure you remember Ben Ellerman, our neighbor and Crew Chief. Ben was big in Boy Scouts and he met this guy named Ray Snyder who had transferred to California from St. Louis to sell AME 4000 for Ashland Chemicals. Ben met Ray through Boy Scouts and told him we were good friends. Well, Ray wanted to sell AME 4000, so he called me. I took Ray around to all the boat builders, in one day. We went to Hallett, Bahner, Warlock, Carrera, maybe Baker and Eliminator.

Eliminator bought so much AME 4000 Bob (Leach) offered to built me a boat...and that is how I got that 21 foot Eliminator Daytona. I bought that V-8, $6,300 bucks CASH!

We raced it at Havasu, Parker and the KILOS and I sold it for $6,300.

[capnzee]

As I recall, the rev limiter was set at 6725 for the Parker Enduro. The 8 cylinders sounded really great at that rpm. It must have been really sweet when running 20 mph or so faster. I have a much better picture of the Eliminator/V8 than the one you have posted. A close look shows the #9 at speed with the "trip-fin" on the rear left sponson out of the water but does not show the non trip on the front left picklefork.

[capnzee]

Walt, You are correct, it did not like to turn, it liked to hook in a turn! That is the reason we made the changes to the #9 boat. Once changes were made, end of problem, boat ran very well. Originally, when the boat was put in a hard turn, the air flow under the boat was disrupted causing the bow to drop. When the bow dropped the left picklefork "tripped", the back of the boat lifted and the right hand prop simply "walked" the boat around. The skeg alone could not hold it.

[stokerdude]

not a great shot but heres a pic of the #9 boat shot by my dad or my uncle (im not sure wich)...man i loved going to the races back then...the smell of the 2-stroke smoke was always thick in the air...
http://i45.tinypic.com/a4myp5.jpg

[stokerdude]

somewhere we have hundreds (maybe thousands) mod-vp pics (mostly parker pics and havasu classic pics)...i still have a hat somewhere from the 88 havasu classic lol...ill see if i can get my uncle to let me dig through some boxes the next time im out at his place and ill try to find the treasure chest of boat racing photos...

[Dabull1919]

I love all old boat racing pictures. Mainly Mod-VP and Mod-U. One thing you`ll notice is that allmost allways there is a boat in the background. That makes for a good picture.

DB

[Ron Hill]

My neighbor's neighbor moved here from St. Louis to sell Ashland Chemicals to boat builders (AME 4000 was new). ILong story, but we go the AME 4000 free.

[Fil fisher]

Just curious, what rpm and prop were you guys running when going 118? And whatever happened to the boat? Did it race anymore?

[Ron Hill]

Keep in mind, this was the first AME 400 boat Eliminator ever built. I think it may have weighed less than 400 pounds. We had bottom water pitch ups, something that was very new, as most ran the geracase in the water, we ran it above the bottom. We ran a 15 X 32.

The V-8 was the 3.6 was Second Effort "High Rev" power packs. I have no ide what the motor was turning for PRM's, but I know we went like 94 MPH with a 32 at 6,250 (Where the rev limiter was). Motor burns a **** load of gas, had tons of power. Had it had an even fire crankshaft, so it sou ded like a V-8, not a V-4 it might have been a big seller.

OMC made so many mistakes.

[Dabull1919]

I have said many times that the big 8`s sounded like a V-4 cross flow and my buds told me i was hearing things.

What year did ya`ll run this boat. How did the V-8 run at Havasu in 1986? I think it was Castelli driving it as well. I don`t recall the brand boat but it was not a pickel fork type. Did it run 118 also?

DB

[Ron Hill]

Truth is, I had watched Mercury go from 55 HP, 58 HP , 75 HP 78 HP, .......Every year, Merc's biggest motor was their top seller.

Back about 1967, when Carl stopped the production line, to build BP's to give away.....that cost Carl the company....but BP's were the biggest motors Mercury made.

When Merc came out with the Black Max everyone said the motor was a "DOG", until Dick Sherrer put a Black max on a Twister mid section and went so fast he tor his boat in half. At Long Beach, Dick was going about 100 when all the 100 inchers were going 90....Dick's sponson came off and he skidded up into the parking lot...no one was hurt, but after than everyone knew the Black max was better than "The Tower of Power".

So, when the V-8 came out i made the decision that he V-8 would be th motor of choice to ouboards and I bought a 3.6 Johnson. I had been working with Lavey-Craft on a Mod VP boat but wanted a bigger boat for the V-8. There was no V-8 MOD VP class but there was a MOD U class that we were legal to race in. John Castelli did drive my "POINTED" Lavey Craft with a V-8 on it a Havasu 1986. There were about 10 Mercs in the race and NOT ONE BROKE. We finished 11th.

With Parker coming the first week of March, I talked to Bob Leach owner of Eliminator Boats. I got hims some "FREE" AME 4000, so Bob built me a 21 Daytona out of AME 4000. I don't recall what class they put us in at Parker, but we actually ranin the top ten most of the day. We had gearcase trouble, hub trouble....(John Castelli and Rod Zapf drove the Daytona).

After the race, we discussed the up coming KILO trial at Modesto. John agreed to take the boat to the Kilos and register as a MOD U and run through to see how fast he could go. Now, I had run my 21 foot Daytona through the kilos at Parker with a V-6 at 92 MPH.

When John retrned from the kilo and said he went 118 I came close to having aheart attack. I figured at 118, with no capsule tha a crash would result in death. I sold th boat the next week and Mike Dondel bought the motor from me. (Mike and hos brother Dale are racing Division II (COR) at Parker again this year.

The V-8 never made OMC any money. I have often thought had the PRODUCTION V-8 sounded like the Race V-8, maybe the public would have liked this motor....But sounding like a V-4 it sounded more like a turd than a race motor. The RACE V-8's sounded mor than cool!

[Dabull1919]

So in a way you answered my question about how fast the Lavey went. Being it was before the Eliminator and before ya`ll disscovered the rev limiter packs the best the Lavey could have ran was 92 same as the Eliminator before the new unrestricted packs. It`s to bad ya`ll didn`t find out about that before the 1986 Havasu race. Maybe could have done better. It would have been interesting anyway. Espesially the first lap.

DB

[Powerabout]

how come they never made even fire V6, ( 2nd effort did)

[Ron Hill]

Some people, including myself, get "Hair Brained Ideas" in their heads and sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail.

I personally feel, that Charlie Strang, then President of OMC, believed he could built a boat racing curcuit that would be BIGGER THAN BUBBLE UP (Bubble Up was a 16 oz cola, that never really sold many bottles of soda, but the term "Bigger Than Bubble Up" always meant something was REALLY good. A NASCAR on the water, he had Bill France, Sr. on the Board of Directors at OMC.

Charlie was an engineer first, a politician second and a corporate leader....maybe third.

OMC spent MILLIONS developing the Race V-8 as Mercury had sold many motors becasue they were the winning motors and everyone knew it. The V-8 circuit started off on the wrong foot in the first place, as OMC wanted to own all the motors. Then, let Gary Garbrecht hand out motors. My sponsor, Brad MIller and I had quit tunnel boat racing because we could not BUY Mercury EFI motors. Brad owned Del Taco, a 100,000 dollar a year business and when he could not buy an F1 motor, we quit racing.

Also, early the V-8 curcuit had more deaths than I really know about. I do know they had three die in one race.

So, the production V-8 was made as cheap as possible and the race V-8 spared NO EXPENSE. I think OMC marketing, if their was such a thing, never knew the difference between even fire and V-4 sound. Their mistake was that even without the internet, people talked on the phone and consumers found out real fast that their V-8 wasn't anything like the Race V-8. Sales never took on the production V-8.

Dabull:

When we ran the Lavey at Havasu with the V-8 we had high rev packs and a Second Effort low water gearcase. What we had done, was design a boat bottom with too wide of tunnels and we could not hold any air under the boat, and it wasn't fast and it didn't handle well.

[Dabull1919]

Interesting take on the 8`s. I never realized there was that much differance between production and race V-8`s. Thumbs up to Merc for not making that misstake. Of coarse they to had a big flop with the 80`s big block 300 but to their credit they redisigned it to the 3.0L we have now and sales are good.

DB

[Powerabout]

the F1V8's were sand cast blocks with removeable exhaust

[IDLife Express]

I just loved reading this Ole' thread! Makes me want to put my Daytona on a huge diet!!

[IDLife Express]

As you can see this boat flies WAY too high... even with the motor trimmed neutral and if I tuck it in, she digs in and never flies level. It still has the twin stainless tanks in either sponson that will be coming out soon and the heavy front seats which I will be replacing with the Racetech Low-Back seats, pictured below. They weigh in at less than 13 pounds each for their extra-wide seats. In the pictures, I was running at 6250 rpm with a Mazco RE4 30" which would blow out in the low speed and would simply lift the nose way too much. I recently bought a labbed Promax 15x30" which I hope will be a great overall prop. Ron, I would LOVE to have one of your Cleavers for solo running.

I have been really not happy with the motor position. The 300X Promax is sitting on the original Eliminator plate PLUS the Dettweiler 6" hydraulic lift plate with a Dial-A-Lift on it. This I feel is giving me WAY too much setback and does not feel solid as it would being closer... it also makes turning in tight rivers an "event". My goal is to remove both and use Scott Porta's parallel lift plate with 12" of setback total. I have one of these on my Flats boat and it is most impressive, allowing me to run flat out in less than 18" of water.

I am most interested in the fin you installed to keep the hull from hooking in turns. Any drawings or pics of this?

See my attached pics for reference. THANKS!!!!

[Dabull1919]

Yes I agree. Your boat is flying very very high!

DB