44xs versus SST45 (45ss)

[Powerabout]

What was the history here, were they designed to be in the same class originally?
45SS came out 1986
44xs came out?
weights?

[DeanFHobart]

What was the history here, were they designed to be in the same class originally?
45SS came out 1986
44xs came out?
weights?

No. The 45 SS was for the SST45 Tunnel class for OPC and 45SS for stock, and the 44XS was for D Stock in Stock. At the Wakefield Stock Nationals in 1986, for the probation race in 45SS they allowed both hydros and tunnel boats, but it was determined that the hydros were too fast. They would run 90 + mph.

The 44XS came out in 1986 also... same year as the 25XS. And the first year for the Mercury Challenge.

In D Stock there were still lots of 55H's running.

[Powerabout]

when the OMC guys explain the design features of the 45, gearbox and steering bars, it was all for hydros, so they must have changed after trying it?
I think there is a post by Sam LaBanco talking about it

[DeanFHobart]

when the OMC guys explain the design features of the 45, gearbox and steering bars, it was all for hydros, so they must have changed after trying it?
I think there is a post by Sam LaBanco talking about it

The thing that I remember is the 1:1 gear ratio was most likely for a Hydro. A "lower" gear ratio would be better for tunnel boats because the propeller would be larger, allowing for better control of a tunnel boat.

[Trident]

Umm, not quite. 44XS was introduced for the 1987 season. We ran the Mk55's with the new graphics for the 1986 Merc Challenge, as 44XS was not out yet. 45SS was introduced for 1986. 45SSH Nationals at Wakefield, we had both hydros and tunnels / hydrocats of various designs in the same race...

And no, the 45 class was originally 45SSH and 45SSR. 45SST came later. Original 45SS motors were rope start, fixed trim.

I raced all three, the 55's, then the new 44XS, and the 45SS on B&H hydros.

Jerry

[DeanFHobart]

Thanks for the correction Jerry. Was it you or your brother running the hydro that won that 1986 Nationals. How fast did it actually go?

[Ron Hill]

Somewhere about 1984, Tohatsu Outboards started being imported from Japan by Western Engine, the Volvo Outdrive distributor for California, Arizona and Nevada.

I saw these little 30 HP motor for $430 dollars and thought, "This is the future of boat racing." I was selling Western Engine about 400 props a year. Volvo did not make a stainless steel prop and CALIFORNIANS LIKE SHINNY PROPS.

ANYWAY, THEY WERE BUILDING LITTLE ADDICTOR BOATS AT SLEEK CRAFT. i WAS LOOKING FOR A PICTURE OF TWO OF MY TWO ADDICTOR AND MY TWO 30 HP TOHATSU'S.

Well, I talked Western Engine into having a race. We decided we'd race to Catalina Island from Newport. We got Trailer Boats magazine a boat and we had 11-12 boats. Sleek Craft took their 36 footer as a "Start" Boat.

Well, hell, as it turned out everyone ran out of gas but Willey Poole from Trailer Boats Magazine. After found everyone and fueled everyone.....In the bar I told Western Engine why don't you let me write some rules and I'll take them to Portland, Oregon to the APBA Meeting and if we want to have races then we'd have insurance. Western Engine said they'd pay the insurance fee and buy trophies.

So, I call Ernie Dawe, then Stock Outboard Vice-President and tell him I want a new class called C-NOD, 30 HP (C) One Design. He said, "Sounds like we could get a few boats and new drivers.

So, we go to Portland, I "PITCH" C-NOD to the Stock Outboard Racing Commission and they vote it in on probation.

That night Mercury Marine blew and *** GASKET and they came back with the Merc Cub and a 25 MERC THE NEXT DAY. MERC CUB NEVER WENT ANYWHERE.

Charile Strang and Edgar Rose go to Ernie Dawe ask him if he'd like a new "A" and an "E" motor? But, they wanted him to drop that C-NOD class.

To Ernie's credit, he said, "You build me the motors, I'll get C-NOD into OPC because it is a "SIT DOWN" class. THEN, MERC AND OMC CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH IT.

Mini Marathon, we added O-NOD and U-NOD. O-NOD was 33 cubic inch 40 HP stock, I didn't want it running against the 44 cubic inch Merc. U-NOD was 33 cubic inches also, modified. Rick Hoffman and Jimmy Johnson soon had 90 MPH Yahama's

[Powerabout]

Umm, not quite. 44XS was introduced for the 1987 season. We ran the Mk55's with the new graphics for the 1986 Merc Challenge, as 44XS was not out yet. 45SS was introduced for 1986. 45SSH Nationals at Wakefield, we had both hydros and tunnels / hydrocats of various designs in the same race...

And no, the 45 class was originally 45SSH and 45SSR. 45SST came later. Original 45SS motors were rope start, fixed trim.

I raced all three, the 55's, then the new 44XS, and the 45SS on B&H hydros.

Jerry
Many thanks Jerry , I forgot about that stuff, rope no trim which says it was a hydro set up.
Assuming you can say, what do you normally get for dyno HP on a sst45 and a 44xs?
Cheers

[Trident]

That was me running the 45SSH. I won the Stock Nationals, all of OMC's big prize money races (Nationals, Ocoee, Dayton) and won the Mod Nationals in FEH on the 1 2/3 mi. at Decatur (and set an APBA record).

Don Fryklund ran a 45SS on a DeSilva to win a Nationals, also.

I ran that motor on my short course B&H E Mod boat... had to settle it just a bit in the fast turns as the motor was heavy and tall...

I had three really good props for it, all big pitch, the most interesting was a three blade 'chopper' style. All ran within 1 mph.
At the 1986 Wakefield Nationals, I loaned my second prop to Phil Van Syckle and I ran the chopper, to win both heats easily.

That race is on the APBA promo Video of that Nationals.

Jerry

[Trident]

Dyno HP on a 44XS is published on the Dyno test report done by my brother, Mike, on the Tohatsu and Merc 44XS comparison. Its online...

I never dyno tested my 45SS... I sold it when they changed the rules to tunnels only 45SST.

Expect by now, they are a long way from stock, but mine had never been apart, just carefully tuned, and tested before the Nationals. Stockest motor I ever raced. Even the inspector was shocked to see it had never been torn down...

[DeanFHobart]

Thanks for the technical information... Cool stuff. How fast did it go?

[hydroplay]

As I remember, Jerry ran about 89 with the 45SS motor and his EMH was noticeably faster. I had been bugging him for some time to let me have a ride in the E and finally in the fall at Kaukauna, he let me play a bit with it. I was probably 50 lbs lighter than him so he only gave me the short course prop. At the time, the kilo record in EMH was 87. So I went out and made a few laps: awesome acceleration and it went 89. It was the only hydro I drove that you really had to hold on so you didn't slide back when it accelerated. I came in and told him the short course stuff was over the kilo record and that I could win the nationals easy with that. His come-back was that with the long course stuff was good enough to push him and the weight to win the nationals! He ran the D and E Mod stuff and I had to be content with his C Mod stuff.

[Trident]

And the key to the C Mod was Sam, as driver, and his awesome boat, C-Monster. He and John Puestow had some excellent C props that brought my C Mod 30H to life. I was too big for C, to run it myself. Heck, I'm too big for D and E. Horsepower and trick boats got the job done, though.

Sam ran like Jack the Bear with that C Mod package. He won several Nationals and set a UIM record. We even loaned the motor and Sam's prop to Fred Miller, who won CMR, after Sam won CMH... Two titles, one teardown!

Back to 45SS, I really liked the 45SSH class, but I suspect that not many guys wanted to run that... kinda like the Super C saga, I'm guessing. Fred M. killed the class with his tunnel proposal, but I felt the 45SS could have been viable. Fred didn't want a competing class, although I argued we were talking two different groups of potential drivers for the two classes... Oh, well... Sold the motor.

[Trident]

To Sam's point about the EMH was faster, it was, as it was a couple MPH faster on top speed with my longest course set up (used for the UIM record at Yelm) and the EMH could be run into the turn harder, faster, actually flat out on the biggest courses.

The 45SS had to be settled a bit while still going straight, to get some edges in the water, to turn it at speed, due to the top heavy weight of the motor... The EMH would turn faster laps.

To the original question of 44XS vs. 45SS, the 45SSH was a solid 5 to 7 mph faster than my DSH 44XS, in testing. But, the 44XS turned in better, with less weight and lower height.

[hydroplay]

I'd have to agree about the handling of the 45 being worse in handling on a hydro going into the corner but I think the gearcase was the main factor. The motor had the propeller quite a ways rear of the swivel pin which changed the dynamics of it compared to the Merc set up. I did some of the initial testing with the 45 for OMC, starting out with a smaller gearcase which did handle better, better being very subjective when driving the boat they had with direct steering. However the service life of that gearcase proved to be limited so the production unit was larger and stronger but was physically larger and handled worse on a hydro. It works suitably well on a tunnel but most are blueprinted to spec to maximize the skeg depth. Had the 45 continued as a hydro class, the boats would have evolved to be much like the Tohatsu DSH today- somewhat longer but mainly wider than a boat for the Merc 44 which would have made the handling better.

The original sales brochures for the 45 had pics of me driving their A&H boat with the direct steering. The pics didn't capture how glad I was to get out of it. I did build a 45 hydro after that for OMC after that which they let others drive as a demonstrator. It was set up to run about 85 mph and was very stable. I was surprised at how few people even took it out for a free ride. After the 45 hydro project switched to tunnels, Jerry Wienandt ended up with the boat and converted it to Merc 650X power to win the Formula E mod nationals for a few years beating the 3 cylinder OMCs. He even let Chuck Petersen win with it. Those were good times!

[Ron Hill]

And the key to the C Mod was Sam, as driver, and his awesome boat, C-Monster. He and John Puestow had some excellent C props that brought my C Mod 30H to life. I was too big for C, to run it myself. Heck, I'm too big for D and E. Horsepower and trick boats got the job done, though.



Sam ran like Jack the Bear with that C Mod package. He won several Nationals and set a UIM record. We even loaned the motor and Sam's prop to Fred Miller, who won CMR, after Sam won CMH... Two titles, one teardown!

Back to 45SS, I really liked the 45SSH class, but I suspect that not many guys wanted to run that... kinda like the Super C saga, I'm guessing. Fred M. killed the class with his tunnel proposal, but I felt the 45SS could have been viable. Fred didn't want a competing class, although I argued we were talking two different groups of potential drivers for the two classes... Oh, well... Sold the motor.

As I recall, Sam was "C" Mod Hydro for many years. Seems it was about the time Johnny Puestow ruined the runabout class forever. LOL! Seems to me, Sam like my little cleavers in those days, too.

I went to Dayton, MAy 1978 and took maybe 20 new three blades with me. I have always loaned props out, and generally, I don't like I've lost many. I really thought I knew most drivers, Leigh Furnal was there (We split a motel room) and different people kept coming up, on Friday, borrowing props. Some brought money back, no the prop....

Towards the end of the day, I realized I had really only sold 8 of my 20 props, but I didn't have any props in my rent car. So, I started down the beach and this one trailer I see what looks like 10-12 of my props......I really didn't know Sam at the time. I say, "Ah, I'd kind of like to get my props back." He say, "Oh, how much did you say they cost?"

He said, "I'll give you a check." So, I take the check, then I see Puestow... I say, "John is this guy's check good?" John says, "Yes."

That was the beginning a pretty long friendship.

I have often wonder how I would have done in a B and H Hydro compared to my BeZoats. I loved the BeZoats, but I quit Stock Racing over it. I fell out of it 2 1/ times and decided a man could get killed in those things. So, I quit and ran Mod VP for the next ten-twelve years...

[Trident]

You would have loved a B&H...

And I got Sam to build all my boats with an extra deep cockpit, as I felt insecure in my previous A&H boats. Too easy to fall out, and I did once and didn't enjoy it.

I was a pretty big pile, 6'4" and about 245# and the deep sides, higher dashboard and shallower cutout on the throttle side helped immensely. Sam said the boat would look funny, but I needed the extra security and I thought it looked beautiful. On a large course, my B&H's could start to pull a pretty good G force, but I stayed in them... Paying for some extra lumber and labor was way better than getting hurt. All my B&H hydros were built like that.

[Trident]

Sam is right about the 45SS would have liked a wider bottom boat. Mine was 36", and with my weight, plus a, what?, 130# motor with a lot of weight up high, if I went in too hard, the boat would start to oscillate. I could stop that by backing off or turning back out some (hope there isn't another boat there), but that doesn't win races. If I stayed on it, I was sure to crash as each oscillation got worse!

I was fine with the gearcase, after careful shaping, it really tracked well running high and tucked but that tall heavy powerhead felt a lot like a heavy inverted pendulum up there to me... Settle it, turn it, then power on worked on the 36" bottom for me. Guessing 38" would have been the ticket.

Then, I tested the prototype on my B&H boat for OMC with the small preproduction gearcase, too. That one handled beautifully as of course, it was hand finished perfectly. First time I ran my own larger production case, I knew I had to tune up the gearcase. It was so bad, I spun it testing at Lake Hamilton when I picked up my motor! Stayed in it, stayed upright. That will be enough for today! Worked it overnight in the motel room, and repainted it before the Ocoee race. Easy win at Ocoee.

[Chip Trampe]

Jerry and Sam,
You two should write a book about your adventures in outboard racing development-would make for great reading between Packer games.
Chip

[Mike Wienandt]

The SST 45s we build today are 71-73 hp at the crank. Takes some careful details to make that happen. Always on the search for good parts.

[Powerabout]

The SST 45s we build today are 71-73 hp at the crank. Takes some careful details to make that happen. Always on the search for good parts.

70hp at 7000?