Some Thoughts About APBA's Rules

[Ron Hill]

1. They have J Class propellers: Someone drives from California to the Nationals to race, 2,300 miles one way. They test with the J Propellers but are given another J Propeller for the race. Driver does not get on plane. 4.600 miles of highway driving to not get on plane. Driver is discouraged! Ya think??

2. 300 Props are cast by us for Brinkman, but at the price they are made, they aren't quite equal.

Answer to these two propeller problems: Simple let you run your own prop but make a diameter rule to slow the boats down.

3. Gearcase Rule: Three things should be measured: 1. "R" measurement 2. skeg width at the bottom of the skeg 3. Skeg length

4. Transom height have out lived their life. Do away with all transom heights.

5. Spray shields should be required on any boat that throw the water high than 3 feet in the air. Boats turn just fine without throwing water 25 feet in the air making visibility impossible.

6. All J and AXS starts should be beach starts until capsules are installed.

7. Any ignition system should be legal on the 102. Right now the 302 ignition
system can be used on the 102, but there are none for sale.

8. Without transom heights, PRODUCTION gearcases will out run racing gearcases if they have bottom water pick ups and nose cones. Allow production gearcases to run with nose cones, in A, AXS, Mod 200 and K Pro. This opens up thousands of 15 HP motors and would open up thousands of eyes.

9 In A and AXS, if the Mercury is a 15 allow it to run.

Every Division of APBA has a leader that has an Axe To Grind and usually the AXE he wants ground is so he can win...and APBA SITS ON THEIR ASSES AND WATCH THE WORLD as boat racing circles the drain.

When all is said little will be done, little will we done!

ADD:

A stock gearcase can be made for very little money.

Salton sea 1947, we'll be back!

Any OMC 15 should be allowed to run, follow the OMC spec to keep it stock.

[Ron Hill]

If you look closely, you can see my dad's 1937 Plymouth, next to the scales and our cousin Harold's tent next to my dad's Plymouth. I was 3 year old but I remember being there. BUD PINTO'S PINTO.
DOC INGILES A ALKY! They way we "Rolled" then!

[Ron Hill]

Back in the day, lower units had measurements. My dad made many as did Marshall Eldridge and others. There was a "SPEC SHEET" and if your lower unit measure it was legal. My dad made many lower unit for Pep Hubbell back in the day!

Why does APBA make you buy a lower unit from a company that make about 5 a YEAR???
OPEN THE RULES UP!

Does APBA want new people to race with or new people to beat? Where is APBA's Ross Chastain?

[racnbns]

I got TOOOOO old ! I'd change my name to ROSS and go racing if I was a cupla years younger!

Keep it up RON !

Bruce

[DeanFHobart]

I really like the double decker car top with the runabouts. We did lots of back to back rack car topping over the years. We did it several years with an ASH and DSH on my pinto… motors in the trunk, gas cans in the boats, etc… from Seattle to Bakersfield… about 1000+miles…straight through, no stopping except for gas…about 20 hours.

Who was 74-J?

[Ron Hill]

Those two boat are Doug Pinto and his Pinto!

[DeanFHobart]

Those two boat are Doug Pinto and his Pinto!

Cool… didn’t notice it was a Pinto… his being a station wagon, mine was a hatch back.

[Albert]

As someone who had only been around stock ourboard for a couple years, yamatos are great and they are easy to work on and rebuild but I have two omc 15 motors in my garage that are useless unless I find a lower unit. I can’t say I haven’t been tempted to measure the racing unit and have a batch machined offshore.

[Ron Hill]

You could get 50 made for $400 each including shipping ($20,000), THEN WHEN THEY GOT HERE APBA WOULD NOT MAKE THEM LEGAL....

Well, when I considered this myself, my son loaded his office shot gun!

We at Hill Marine and Signature Propellers make 7,000 stainless steel propellers a year, my son is into making great propellers and making MONEY.

[DeanFHobart]

As someone who had only been around stock ourboard for a couple years, yamatos are great and they are easy to work on and rebuild but I have two omc 15 motors in my garage that are useless unless I find a lower unit. I can’t say I haven’t been tempted to measure the racing unit and have a batch machined offshore.

I thought that Sidewinder made them…. Also check with APBA… or inquire here on boat racing facts or hydroracer.

[Albert]

I thought that Sidewinder made them…. Also check with APBA… or inquire here on boat racing facts or hydroracer.

Dean,
I have no doubt they are out there to be had. But I know they are in short supply and the club up in Toronto is having trouble finding motors for kids and parents who want to race.
The ability to buy a 500$ lower unit as opposed to a 1500$ lower unit that’s difficult to find would help a lot.


Ron,
I only know you by what I’ve read online, Dean might even vouch that I retain a reasonable quantity of that read information. I don’t think getting props made en masse would lead to a good product but getting a part cast overseas and having the machine work done here when it lands seems like someone could produce a reasonably priced lower unit to get new racers on the water.

As for the apba banning it…are they really going to turn a 12 year old kid away from a race when the lower unit meets the technical drawings in the rule book? If so they best re evaluate their priorities. I don’t think anyone I’ve spoken to would suggest that what hydroplane racing needs is fewer racers.

[Ron Hill]

As for the APBA banning it…are they really going to turn a 12 year old kid away from a race when the lower unit meets the technical drawings in the rule book? If so they best re evaluate their priorities. I don’t think anyone I’ve spoken to would suggest that what hydroplane racing needs is fewer racers.

Hill Marine casts all their 7,000 propellers, yearly, here in America,

We have CNC machines that could machine billet gearcases cheaper than casting them heat treating them then machining.

I bought a new OMC gearcase a few years ago, and APBA may have some on hand.

THERE IS NOT ONE CLASS IN STOCK RACING THAT ALLOWS FULL SHIFTING GEARCASES WITH NOSE CONES. DO AWAY WITH HEIGHT RULES IN J, AXS, AND A. A PRODUCTION GEARCASE WITH LOW WATER PICK UPS WILL OUT RUN A RACING GEARCASE.

Production gearcases are not legal in any APBA Stock class.

[Albert]

So how did the sport end up in a position where you can’t race a stock lower unit in stock outboard?


I was really excited 2 years ago to see testing of the 25 merc four stroke. Then it seems like it went dead in the water.

[Ron Hill]

I asked Mike if he wanted any help as I HAVE BOTTOM water pick up nose cones. I think his answer was he was working on a steering bar. WHY NOT USE Morris type cable like 90% of inflatables/BOSTON whalers use?

Mickey Schwarzenbach rigged the 55 HP Chrysler with store bought cables. THE MOTOR HAS NO STEERING BAR!

[Ron Hill]

ALBERT HAVE YOU EVERY STUDIED OUR AMERICAN GOVERMENT AND THE PEOPLE THAT ELECTED TO REPRESENT US? Well, I have baring a few, Trump not being one, people in our government are out for themselves. THEY COME IN POOR, FIFTY YEAS LATER THEY LEAVE AS BILLIONAIRES.

Over the year APBA's management, and those behind the scenes in APBA HAVE LOOKED OUT FOR THEMSELFVES.

Mercury has always wanted to win. BUT THEY WANTED TO SAY "WHO" won with a MERCURY.

OMC had SECOND EFFORT AS THEIR RACING DIVISION. but they raced against their "customers". But in fact almost all their customer boats and engines were owned by OMC.

Some will disagree with me, but I feel and have felt that CHARLIE STRANG RAN APBA.

MORE LATER!

[Ron Hill]

Around 1980, a new neighbor moved in from Japan, two doors away. I find out he is Vice President of Kawasaki. Jet Skis are "POPPING UP
everywhere.

I dig out some old Speed and Spray Magazines nd BOAT Sport Magazines, for about a month, every time I see my neighbor who speaks no English, I run over and see him with a magazine that shows Stock Outboard Racing.

My neighbor has someone contact me from Kawasaki Corporation. They seem genuinely interested in racing, but they also would like to buy insurance to sell/give with each Jet Ski sold.

I contact Rick Sandstrom, President of APBA regarding getting Kawasaki into racing and selling them insurance. The APBA convention is two months away, I am Region 12 Chairman. Kawasaki plans on selling 10,000 units next year (1981).

I get a call from Rick Sandstrom that the APBA BOD has appointed me and Russ Kuhlman (APBA's Insurance man) as a two man committee to meet with Kawasaki at the APBA convention.

Russ and I talk on the phone and decide he could write a liability policy for $15 with $1.00 each policy going to Region 12 and $10 would be an APBA membership or $100 grand, not counting renewal.

Russ, three men from Kawasaki, me and Russ's secretary meet at 9:00 A.M. WE DISCUSS APBA'S HISTORY, RACING, PEOPLE. We break for an early lunch, meet back at 1:00. To me, I'M COUNTING APBA'S NEW MONEY AND Region 12's.

The meeting get serious, Kawasaki agrees to buying insurance and an APBA "RACING" membership with each Jet Ski sold. Owner could drop out the second year or renew at $25. Russ's secretary wrote up the agreement, Russ and I signed for APBA. Kawasaki signed, we shook hands.

I got up to my room about 4:00, told me wife Russ and I had just put APBA on BROADWAY.

At 5:00 Rick Sandstrom called and said come down to his room. I was ready for a drink and celebration.

MIKE Jones in there and so is RICK. Mike says, "We have a little problem, CHARLIE THINKS KAWASKAKI should start their own organization. WITH THEIR 10,000 VOTES THEY COULD CONTROLL APBA. Go tell the Japanese the deal is off...." CHARLIE'S EXACT QUOTE WAS LET THE JAPS START THEIR OWN CLUB.

A lot of air went out of my balloon that night.

I never spoke to anyone from from Kawasaki again. My neighbor was later promoted President of Kawasaki CORPORATION.

I'm not done!

[Ron Hill]

Because CAESAR'S PALACE sponsor a Seebold Tunnel Boat I thought it would be a great place to put on the APBA convention. I made a few calls and cut a deal with Caesar's for the 1979 APBA Convention (This was in '78).

I had a sponsor of considerable means. HE OWNED 92 DEL TACO fast foot restaurant, owned CRAZY HORSE CAMPGROUND IN HAVASU, plus a lot more investments than I could count.

With the help of Fred Hauenstein and the Stoker's of John's Custom Marine, we won the 7 Hour Enduro at Parker. Fred went to work for Mercury and "WE", MY SPONSOR AND I WERE TO GET THE BEST STUFF MERCURY HAD. We gave them our Evinude stuff, they gave us carbureted motors when Team Mercury ran fuel injection.

After Havasu 1979, I told my sponsor I was DONE getting beat by Mercury FUEL injection. I WAS GOING TO GO MOD VP RACING.

JIM JOST was Evinrude's PR man and he gave me a 235. TIM SOARES and I RAN 4TH THAT YEAR AT HAVASU.

Dick Sherrer and I wrote the rules for MOD VP. No racing parts. All part must be in warrantable condition. Dick was a Mercury dealer and sick of Mercury's dealings and OMC was head off toward V-8's. We wanted these to companies to help pay for racing rather than us paying them.

Mercury made all their races parts, "STOCK" in their catalogue....the warrantee rule disappeared.

MOD VP GREW INTO THE LARGEST CLASS IN OPC RACING..... THEN CAME YAMAHA, MERCURY AND OMC WANTED MOD VP DEAD.

[Ron Hill]

Around 1982, I WAS TEACHING SCHOOL, MAKING LOTS OF PROPELLERS (and MONEY), plus racing MOD VP.

MOD VP was so fun in the early days, STOCK production motors that we could work on anyway we saw fit.

Volvo had a four bolt main 350 that they sold to everyone (8 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR). BUT IT CAME WITH AN ALUMINUM PROP ONLY.

I made a stainless steel Volvo prop that Western Engine bought about 400 props a year. Eliminator bought about 2 a week and that is how I SAW THE FIRST DAYTONA. I designed an outboard bracket for this jet boat and BOB LEACH, OWNER OF ELIMINTOR boats, gave me a boat to race for the design.

About this time I went into the Volvo Distributorship and they had 500 TOHOTSU motors in boxes. I ASKED WHAT A "TO HOT SHOE" (Tohatsu) WAS.

I bought three 30's on the spot for $1,350 or $450 each. My price for 4 props...

I find out that Sleek Craft is building some Addictor boats. So, I buy two.

[Albert]

ALBERT HAVE YOU EVERY STUDIED OUR AMERICAN GOVERMENT AND THE PEOPLE THAT ELECTED TO REPRESENT US? Well, I have baring a few, Trump not being one, people in our government are out for themselves. THEY COME IN POOR, FIFTY YEAS LATER THEY LEAVE A BILLIONAIRES.

Over the year APBA's management, and those behind the scenes in APBA HAVE LOOKED OUT FOR THEMSELFVES.

Mercury has always wanted to win. BUT THEY WANTED TO SAY "WHO" won with a MERCURY.

OMC had SECOND EFFORT AS THEIR RACING DIVISION. but they raced against their "customers". But in fact almost all their customer boats and engines were owned by OMC.

Some will disagree with me, but I feel and have felt that CHARLIE STRANGE RAN APBA.

MORE LATER!


I’ve read up on the American electoral system a few times but I usually reserve my comments on it as I live in Canada. And there’s a saying about glass houses and stones…


Humour me as I railroad this thread for a minute. I’m really intrigued by the merc 25 and would jump at a chance to build a motor with fuel injection and modern ignition. As someone born in the 80s I have a much better handle on manipulating efi than I do a carburateur.

But how hard would it be to put together a good prop for a set up on a 25merc/tohastu/Suzuki?


Also I can’t speak to why they wouldn’t run cable steering other than the runabout probably already had ropes and when a steering bar is what you know a steering bar is what you use.

[dandrews75]

See you almost fell into the trap Ron. You want to make a small fortune in boat racing start with a big fortune! Kent over at Lifeline finally saw the light, can sell a lot more life jackets to the general public than he ever could to racers.

[dandrews75]

See this is the problem, we spend a lot of time chasing specialized equipment that has been out of production for decades and then try to find solutions to increase the supply of parts for said engines. That is not a model for mass participation in boat racing. A few of us having been saying for years why aren’t we using regular production fishing engines? I suppose the closest thing we have right now to production engine classes would be T750 and 850 here in Ontario. Very similar to the V bottom classes of the 1980’s.

[dandrews75]

As someone who had only been around stock ourboard for a couple years, yamatos are great and they are easy to work on and rebuild but I have two omc 15 motors in my garage that are useless unless I find a lower unit. I can’t say I haven’t been tempted to measure the racing unit and have a batch machined offshore.
You could say the Yamato was the best and worse thing that happened to stock outboard. When those engines first came over I believe Ron suggested a setup similar to what 300SSH is now. He stepped out of the room for a bit and came back to find out something entirely different was agreed on. It has been a never ending rule book since and trying to keep up with it. These engines are anything but stock and you know that first hand and it goes right back to APBA and SORC leadership. I see rule changes that have happened over the years like the head dimension delete and all that invited was a rework of the head combustion chambers and because we no longer have many skilled inspectors and inspections at races anymore. You could always do something like that but it was a lot harder.

[Albert]

I rebuilt my Yamato 80 from a basket case from gearfoot to crank bearings doing everything myself except the rod bearings (had a friend press the crank) I was fortunate that there are people around who helped me but I’ll tell you trying to find stock pistons a rod and a bunch of other parts to keep it stock as per the manual was a hassle. If I were less concerned with it being legal for stock I could definitely have at least matched the rods and gotten a blank piston to be made to work and ….well you know made a legal looking from the outside motor that would work better.

I didn’t keep track of what it cost but I’m sure I could have bought a great used 25 fishing motor by now instead of having an 80 that’s not competitive because I don’t have access to a dozen used rods and pistons to make a good set. Or freshly sleeved block, or a cnc or a tig set up to weld up and machine the head with a tighter squish band and higher dome that still meets the cc limit.

Now a modern four stroke…with a low water pickup of some kind and a sealed ecu…now wouldn’t that be something. But it’s no fun racing by yourself and all the locals run Yamato’s.

[Ron Hill]

Everyone of these Race Boats have stock production gearcases.

Hell that 6 HP or whatever have one of my 16 pitch cleavers on it. Check out the skeg, I'll bet he can turn on a dime.

[Albert]

It seems like requiring a low production gear case in an entry level class that should be used to get people on the water is a very curious rule

[zul8tr]

Everyone of these Race Boats have stock production gearcases.

Hell that 6 HP or whatever have one of my 16 pitch cleavers on it. Check out the skeg, I'll bet he can turn on a dime.

Long skeg for sure with very high running prop on a tunnel + far engine set back and the little 1 cylinder engine it is a very maxed out set up.

[Ron Hill]

Western Engine was good to me, they paid COD when I delivered propellers. When I found out the motors only cost $450, so I bought three.

There were some young men working at Western Engine, Chuck Frederick, Bill Shepard to name two. Twitchy, I never knew his real name, had a small show sell Addictors and Tohatsu motors.

Somebody, probably me, decided we should have a race. It was decided to race to Catalina Island. Willey Poole, who's dad owned Trailer Boat Magazine wanted to race. We had 12 boats and they followed Bruce Nescher out into the ocean in his 36 foot boat. Off they went. One problem, they all ran out of gas. Willey Poole borrowed some gas and finished.

We got everyone back safely but that night over few drinks I told Sleek Craft and Western Engine had someone died out here we'd all be sued and they had more to lose than me.

I SUGGESTED, I go to APBA and get us a class, so we could use APBA insurance. As it turned out, my long time friend and college roommate was Ernie Dawe and he was Stock Outboard VP. I presented the class as C-NOD (30 HP, National One Design) It was approved.

Charlie Strange went to Ernie and said, "If you'll kick that Japanese motor out, tomorrow, I will built you a NEW "A" and "E" motor. Ernie responded that, "You build the motors, I will let OPC (because it is a sit down boat) have C-NOD. Next year we had a new "A" and "45 SS" motor. Ernie kicked C-NOD to OPC.

Backing up a year, Mercury came out with the CUB class that never hit the water as far as I ever knew.

I got home from the APBA meeting and Western Engines tells me they have a 40 HP. They also tell me they will buy insurance and trophies for all our races.

So, I throw in two new Classes: S-NOD stock 40 that became Sport C (31 cubic inch maximum as to not let Mercy 4 cylinder 44 kick Tohatsu's ***). And U-NOD (31`1 cubic inches Modified).

We schedule a 5 hour Enduro at Parker the week before the Thanksgiving Havasu Classic. We get like 65 entries,1 Merc, 2 Evinrudes 1 Yamaha and the rest Tohatsu's.

Race was crazy successful. We start racing everywhere. Club makes money because of Western Engine paying APBA fees and buying trophies.

[modracer7b]

It never made sense to me that "Stock" never had classes with "Stock/Club Foot" motors. I think my first Mark 5 J motor was a club foot and it worked just fine. Any disadvantage in running a club foot was not a disadvantage if everyone ran them. As far as speed, most want to stay in the 55 to 75 range anyway and cubic inches can regulate the speed. Spending a lot of money on the foot is an expense for everyone just like jacking up the motors for speed has become a safety hazard for everyone.

[Ron Hill]

Our first Mini Enduro had like 67 boats in three classes. No racing gearcases.

We had a hell of a five hour race. The trophy presentation was over the roof with cheers.

The Miller Boys from All Season's Marine had won overall with an Evinrude (U-NOD) Blake Esau won O-NOD with a 40 Tohatsu. And I can't remember who won C-NOD.

All year we raced with the regular APBA club, SCOA. SCOA made lots of money with Western Engine paying the insurance bill and buying the trophies.

to be continued

[dandrews75]

That’s an OMC 15 in the picture to the right? Bob Abbott has a couple of dozen motors that need a gearfoot. Apparently people will sell you an engine but not with the gear case, keeping them for a spare. Any new ones being made? I thought SW LLC was making them but that is in limbo now. I hear the sucking sound of that drain loud and clear!

[Ron Hill]

You take a $1,000 OMC, rob the gearcase for a Mercury. That's how you grow a class! You kill a $1,000 motor with a faster $3,000. This kind of thinking is amazing!

[Ron Hill]

https://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.png One Pound or Twenty...
My dad weighed boats for years. He would never tell you what you weighed. He sit the scales at say 365 pounds, and he weighed you. You either made weigh or not....If you wanted to know "HOW LIGHT" or "How heavy" my dad would say, "When I'm done, you can use the scales..."

My dad is the guy that started weighing between heats....We got to noticing some guys we really fast in the first heat, and not very fast in the second....


My dad was a "BUG" about draining water...as one guy used to have size 16 boots, on the scale full or water he was 16 pounds over, no water he didn't make weight...

The "ALKY" Division, now called "PRO" really never liked guys running STOCK stuff in their DIVISION...for several reasons. One was that guys like Ted May won the Townsend Medal and didn't even own an alky burning engine...

At the APBA convention the "ALKY" guys passed a rule that Stock "Step Ups' had to meet the classes weight... In those days a D Stock's weight was about 100 pounds lighter than a D ALKY. Ted and I ran our D Stocks, and to make weight we put a five gallon gas can in the cockpit...


Ted weighed first and they tossed him for being light (HE didn't have any gas in the can the first heat...So, was way light the first heat)... I watched with "WIDE EYES" and thought, hmmm. So, I pulled my sponson corks while I was waiting to be weighed. I slipped the corks back in....It took six people to get the boat on the scale...I made weight....Ted was saying, "How come Ronnie made weight and I didn't???"

Later I told Ted about the water. He was madder than hell....Neither one of us ran D Alky again with our stock stuff....Rules are frequently written with someone's best interest in mind....but usually there are unexpected consequences. Like LOST INCOME to a club as we no longer could field enough D Hydros to race D Alky hydro....

[dandrews75]

https://youtu.be/baOKzPnypqM

So the video above is a straight up apples to apples comparison to the current AX with a racing foot. The boat in the video is a Fralick hydro that was built and raced by Bob and Jonathan Abbott back in 2005. The boat in the video which is box stock including the regular foot has run 52 mph and weighs around 310+ with the driver so maybe 15-20 under current class weight. In talking with someone who has ran the same design with the racing foot on the AX they ran 53 mph. Now top boat are running what 54-56? How much money is being poured into these engines for the same performance? I can buy a Merc AX15 for what, 1000 or less off of Craigslist or Kijiji and achieve the same performance. It’s really time to wake up when it comes to stock and I’m guilty of it myself!