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dandrews75
12-07-2022, 04:29 PM
https://youtu.be/baOKzPnypqM

So the video above is a straight up apples to apples comparison to the current AX with a racing foot. The boat in the video is a Fralick hydro that was built and raced by Bob and Jonathan Abbott back in 2005. The boat in the video which is box stock including the regular foot has run 52 mph and weighs around 310+ with the driver so maybe 15-20 under current class weight. In talking with someone who has ran the same design with the racing foot on the AX they ran 53 mph. Now top boat are running what 54-56? How much money is being poured into these engines for the same performance? I can buy a Merc AX15 for what, 1000 or less off of Craigslist or Kijiji and achieve the same performance. Itís really time to wake up when it comes to stock and Iím guilty of it myself!

dandrews75
12-07-2022, 06:55 PM
https://youtu.be/izONKV0eXww

This is the original video of this boat with the box stock aluminum prop doing 50 mph. Motor is box stock in both videos. Max RPM in this configuration was 6710. Pay close attention to the comments. Almost 50000 views of this video. I haven’t seen any current stock outboard racing videos that come close to this number of views! Anyone know what is going on with the Mercury 20HP 4 Stroke? It would be nice to step into the 21st century and actually be able to get a readily available motor for racing from a mainstream company at the dealer down the road and not be subject to the whims of what amounts to boutique manufacturers and parts suppliers!

Albert
12-08-2022, 05:53 AM
The young man has a following when he’s racked up 100k views with two hydroplane videos. That 15 seems like a peach of a motor and the fact he’s running an out of the box sub 200$ prop is really impressive. Maybe someone here could comment how much there still is to be gained with a better prop and doing a little work to the power head.
I still would love to test a 20 4t merc. I bet the 4 stroke torque would really help close the gap against the 30~hp 2 strokes.

Ron Hill
12-08-2022, 08:58 PM
When I saw this post, I thought maybe the world ha comes to its senses, then I saw this You Tube was 7 years old.

My brother, was often chastised by the APBA administration for being ten years a head of what was happening.

On Monday December 5, 2022 I agreed to buy a brand new 15 HP Tohatsu, short shaft, 4 stroke.

I was going o have Ernie Dawe build me a boat for this motor.

I digress, with the Sidewinder's one employee who also built the OMC gearcases, I have spent about thee months trying to figure out how to build OMC gearcases.
It come to this build 25 at $2000 each or build 100 at $700 each. ($50,00 for 25 or $70,000 for 100)....If APBA paid for them their return on their investment would be zero over the next 8 years. If I made them my return would be the same.

Bottom line making racing gearcases is a LOSER!

Ron Hill
12-08-2022, 09:15 PM
So, what I suggest is simple:

Have a 15 HP Class with production Gearcases with no rules til the class grows.

I make parts and props for 15 HP and 18 HP that race all over the world, only in America do people think they need a racing gearcases.

Bottom water pick up nose cones.....will out run a OMC 15 gearcase.

That thru hub prop that went 52. I repitched those to 14's added cup in an 5 mile heat in Japan, they were lap a head on the stock props in 5 laps.

My cleaver and Semi cleaver have won the Australian Pursuit for several years...

This is a great idea, on You Tube, just three years ahead of time....

ADD; I had no clue that a stock gearcase with a piece of **** Stainless prop would go 52 MPH, I thought the gearcase would "blow Out"...

Let the class run any 15 HP, including four strokes.

Albert
12-09-2022, 05:22 AM
I guess I need to start loosing weight to make it down to ash size.

In all seriousness though I can’t wait to see how this goes. I’ve only gotten sucked into this hydroplane business in the last few years but it’s been a head scratcher since the start why there are no off the shelf motors in stock outboard racing.

Wiltshire
12-09-2022, 08:55 AM
https://youtu.be/izONKV0eXww

This is the original video of this boat with the box stock aluminum prop doing 50 mph. Motor is box stock in both videos. Max RPM in this configuration was 6710. Pay close attention to the comments. Almost 50000 views of this video. I haven’t seen any current stock outboard racing videos that come close to this number of views! Anyone know what is going on with the Mercury 20HP 4 Stroke? It would be nice to step into the 21st century and actually be able to get a readily available motor for racing from a mainstream company at the dealer down the road and not be subject to the whims of what amounts to boutique manufacturers and parts suppliers!

Hi dAndrews75,

I'm Ken Slessor, the owner and poster of the videos you've shared! I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have about the boat or its setup!

I actually never knew who originally built Fly'N Eagle! I always thought that Will Hunter had built the boat. I bought the boat off of Wesley Hammond years ago. I have made a few tweaks to the boat and repaired it because it was involved in some kind of accident before I bought it from Wesley. I made a few tweaks to the setup after these videos and got the MAX RPM up to 6910, according to the Hardline HR-8061-2 Tach I was using. I'm not too sure how well the engine would hold up revving past that amount, if someone were able to squeeze a few more RPMs out of it.

I think the key to my success with the stock 15HP was that I was the weight of a feather at the time of filming these videos. Pretty sure I weighed about 120-125 in these videos. The boat weighs less than I did too. Your estimate of around 310 is pretty much spot on.

As for using 4-stroke Mercury 15HP engines, I do agree with both yourself and Ron that making the barrier of entry for hydroplane racing lower would be a step in the right direction. Most people these days have no idea how to work on 2-strokes and quickie gear foots or even where to find them. The parts supply for these engines has dried up so much in past 5 years as well. I'm not too sure how well the 4-stroke would work with current boat designs. Not sure if the additional weight in the back with a 4-stroke would cause weight distribution issues or not. It may require some slight tweaks to the boat design. I'd be curious to see the hole shot capability of the 4-stroke vs a 2-stroke. Once you have things dialed in with a 2-stroke, the hole shot becomes extremely difficult.

Ron Hill
12-09-2022, 02:16 PM
Interesting to me, is the throttle set up.

When I first raced for Evinrude, we ran the throttle just like the 15 HP Mercury had, there was a steering cable piece of wire hooked from the throttle to the foot throttle and a bungee to return the throttle.

It worked great and the kill switch was easy to hook to your wrist or life jacket.

By the way, I want to change how these boats are run and raced.

Number One: They will be "Sit Down" Boats.

Number Two: They will ALL race 660 Feet Drags. Drags will have a stand alone winner. But Drag points will accumulate for circles. So circle racing plus drag racing will be the 15 HP winner.

Number Three: No weights, no motor rules but 15 2 or 4 stroke.


And to get around the trim "Drag Race" we will call them a "LOCAL CLASS" with 660 heats.

Look how low Dick O'Dea used to run his KG-4...

dandrews75
12-09-2022, 06:50 PM
Something to keep in mind with these new engines and some of the 2 strokes. The rev limiter. Albert was saying that Tohat and Merc has a 6300 limit. Maybe have a conversation with him on how to get around it. One thing about Ken’s boat, it has a air relief tunnel at the back and this may have helped with the thru hub prop.

Albert
12-10-2022, 05:16 AM
I just checked on the tohastu but I would need to see a wiring diagram (and maybe an ecu schematic) it seems like on the tohatsu the rev limiter just cuts spark to a single coil in order to reduce power and rpm. But I haven’t found a wiring diagram online to tell me much more. If it simply has an additional circuit to one coil it may be easy to bypass (although I doubt an oe manufacturer would allow a coil to ground out through the ecu) regardless I’m sure there is a work around.
Ultimately it may not be required to turn the power head that fast if the gearing in the lower unit keeps the prop speed up right?

Ron Hill
12-10-2022, 10:42 AM
I very much dislike REV limiters because they have caused me much research and development time. Props have to be made to stay off the rev limiters getting on plane or the boat won't plane....then to go quick and fast is another problem.

BUT I do feel they same motors!


I know nothing of MSD Ignitions except they run them down south in drags on their small motors.

Albert
12-10-2022, 12:01 PM
I very much dislike REV limiters because they have caused me much research and development time. Props have to be made to stay off the rev limiters getting on plane or the boat won't plane....then to go quick and fast is another problem.

BUT I do feel they same motors!


I know nothing of MSD Ignitions except they run them down south in drags on their small motors.

My gut tells me tohastu probably didn’t go to overly complex with the ecu and ignition control. Can someone get a copy of a tohastu factory service manual with wiring diagrams and info on how to get detailed data off the ecu?

Ron Hill
12-10-2022, 05:41 PM
The old Tohatsu's fired twice per cylinder per revolution. Once at Top Dead Center, then again at bottom dead center.

You could cross the plug wires an the motor didn't care (25, 30 and 40's is what I knew).

Maybe, the new coils do the same and one wire could be split for two cylinders, leaving the REV LIMITER WIRE OFF.

I'll cross that bride if I ever get that far.

1986, Chad Hill, 9 years old driving our Snapper with a 30 Tohatsu!

dandrews75
12-10-2022, 07:24 PM
79300
Remember this boat? Rusty Raeís son Joe drove this J/A Hydro.

dandrews75
12-11-2022, 06:50 AM
79301
The Cadillac of runabouts. Powered by a Mark 58 here and repowered with a Tohatsu later. Have seen this boat run marathon many times.

rumleyfips
12-11-2022, 02:06 PM
The 5 hp class run in Malaysia looks ( to me ) impressively fast with both v bottoms and tunnels.

dandrews75
12-11-2022, 06:08 PM
Other sit down rides with production engines, TBoat classes in Ontario, which are a reincarnation of outboard classes from the 70’s and 80’s. There was some talk in Region 6 of coming up with something similar to T750 and 850. The opportunity I see there is use the Ontario model or a model that satisfies participants in Region 6 and Ontario and people can race on both sides of the border. They currently race at some TORC races and some drag events. There may be an opportunity to run Marathon races in Michigan, perhaps Top O. Big opportunity for those two classes to grow, lots of boats and motors available. The Ontario guys hang out on the High Performance Boating Canada website and post here also.

Tim Kurcz
12-13-2022, 03:56 AM
Contrary to popular belief, my Ropp marathon boat is a kneeler. A deep vee with pad, it's probably the best rough water marathon boat ever built. This image is Top-O 2015 with Tyler Shensky in hot pursuit. There's a decent chance it'll return in 2023.
Tim

Tim Kurcz
12-13-2022, 04:04 AM
https://www.dillon-racing.com/pro-vee/plans.htm

Here's a great potential solution for a sit-down beginner or 4-stroke class.

dandrews75
12-13-2022, 10:48 AM
Never realized your boat wasn’t a sit down ride. I have never looked inside it, always assumed it was a sit down ride. Thanks for sharing the Dillon Racing site. Lots of good stuff there. I see someone with the above ride has hit 57+ with a yamaha 40hp 2 stroke. The class of boat above uses the 31.8 ci OMC, the 20, 25, 30 and 35 all share the same parts, they are running right at 50 mph in the above configuration. I have a couple here in the garage a 25 and 35. You can buy them for a dime a dozen, I paid 200 CDN for the 35. You can also add the Panther power trim/tilt for as low as $550. It is a bolt on piece, very nice! Could add that class to any program at any race. The new 4 strokes would look good on the back. Guys over on TinBoats.net have a wealth of information on low HP production outboards. Lots of potential out there we just need to realized it and capitalize, drop the “me” and embrace the “we”.

Tim Kurcz
12-14-2022, 03:53 PM
The biggest issue with APBA racing is "what's in my trailer" syndrome. The SORC and MORC killed the sport to protect their classes. With zero "small motor" support from major marine manufacturers, it's impossible for a rookie to get involved.

Mini Max
12-15-2022, 11:29 AM
Does anyone race B stock anymore? I bought a nice Bennett BSR with an 80 Yamato off of Facebook and then I find that B Stock wasn't raced at TOPO or locally this year. Also the last two races locally we did not have enough CSR's to run.

I was able to find a 102 and 302 easy enough and build my own boat but any new motor to purchase is going to be a four stroke. Perhaps that 20 hp Tohatsu fitted to the old "B" boats? Call it the "NewB" class? :-)
Most of the small Mercs are Tohatsu's with a black cowl anyways. The round nose gear cases run better than the pointy ones below 85mph if the prop shaft is low I have found.

I perceive that there are two ways the sport is populated. Mom or Dad race and their kids do, or kids never affording to race but always wanting to get involved, some time later in life and participate when they can afford to.

Being in the second category, I never thought I would live as long as I have, so I was 70 before I got my first APBA race boat. Its a lot of fun with some great folks. My composite CSR has a seat and it will allow my beat up old body to run TOPO which is my goal. When I am left alone unsupervised this is what you get.

dandrews75
12-15-2022, 04:11 PM
Hard to race “B” anything when the engine of choice is not being produced right now. You also have the added difficulty when said engine of choice has not been reliable. The Y80 and Merc 25xs were suppose to be stop gap measures to bring numbers up in “B” while SW20 numbers came up. Well how has that worked out? So your logical conclusion of putting a production motor on the back of your boat is the correct one because right now you cannot buy any of the current new engines used for stock outboard in any class!

dandrews75
12-15-2022, 05:28 PM
There’s a summary on the Hot Pit FB of the SORC zoom call to discuss/vote on proposals. The thing of most note is the very last point/paragraph of the summary. SORC Chairman Nichols met with the head of Mercury Racing Stuart Halley. Stuart mentioned Mercury has the 15 & 20 HP 4 stroke motors they would like to introduce to racing. These engines are all under 30 HP and produced at a factory in Japan. The factory is a combined venture between Mercury and Tohatsu. I am going to assume that since this was last in the summary and no mention was made where production engines fit into the future of Stock Outboard Racing that they are still an afterthought with the SORC. The impression I get is they are still hitching the wagon to the past, like approving 30h gear cases for the 25xs because there are no 25xs cases left. How old is this engine? Doesn’t it fall into the collectable category at this point? Racing this way is not the now and nor is it the future! Sending a letter to SW LLC to draft a letter to the stock outboard membership for an update as to what is going on with the corporation? They don’t owe anyone an explanation, it’s business! Let’s see here? SW LLC, Yamato, (BRF folded the tent on OMC they past spring) or Mercury? How many years has Mercury been in business for now? Choose wisely!

dandrews75
12-15-2022, 05:46 PM
This was a post by laddies on Hydroracer 2 years ago during the discussion about the Mercury 20 HP 4 Stroke
Deeougee, I know that it is unpopular among the good of boys but I think that stockoutboard needs to get back to it's roots and use stock engines from a legitimate outboard manufacture, not like what is being done now. Engine that are manufactured in a small business platforn will always be scarce along with parts for them. Stockoutboard racers need engines and parts readly available to them, and when new engines become available the need to be raced in the factory new specifications, not allowing crankshaft welding, differant carbs, heads milled to mention just a few things. Props should be drawn at the race like the merc challenge. If everyone used a fishing lower unit so be it, but we need to get back to stock, where it is the drivers ability, not deep pockets to win a race.
No one from the committee better come here and say they are working on a plan! It’s been 2 years since you were given a motor to test! Either **** or get off the pot!

Mini Max
12-16-2022, 07:42 AM
Ron, some thoughts on your post.

You displayed a picture of a 20 hp Tohatsu so that is the one I started to research. I would think that pushing a new 15 into classes that have boats and motors already racing would receive some push back. Pushing a 20 cu in Tohatsu 4 stroke into B class not racing might be embraced.

I had a project for a twin outboard endurance boat and started discussions with Mercury and was told "We don't need to promote racing, we have more sales we can handle", and we would not be interested at all unless it was "Green" Electric or Hydrogen". Presently I can't get the ten Mercury 300 hp V-8 engines I have had on order since February 2021, and was told "We can't tell you when you will get them". Maybe its just me. I switched to Cummins diesels so I can ship boats.

I spoke to my Tohatsu distributor yesterday on the other hand, about getting some motors for stock outboard racing and heard him say comments like "cool" "awesome" "inventory sitting in the warehouse ready to ship". The Tohatsu distributor will stop in to see me in January so I will have him bring me a 20 and get a transom on the "B' boat raised to fit it.

My first thought is to fit a water pressure guage to the tohatsu and start jacking the motor up incrementally. We modify Mercury stock gear case's now to get water pressure, even the sportmaster with the factory low water pickup designed in. The 450R with the HD case round nose) we were only getting 8 PSI. We plugged all 16 gill intakes above the cavitation plate, drilled (4) 1/4" holes in the nose of the gear case, and two 1/2" holes through the water pump partition. Go as high as we want now. Went from 8 to 28 PSI. 28" is what the engine required not to go into guardian mode.

If the prop shaft is height checked like my Yamato maybe you would not need a nose cone with the Tohatsu and a few holes plugged and drilled.

Ron Hill, sign me up for a propeller.

Albert
12-18-2022, 09:09 AM
Mini Max,
I wonder if the 20hp has a pressure sensor from the factory. If so I’m guessing it would be a standard 0-5 or 0-12v sensor. If so it would be pretty easy to just get a regular gauge and mount it up at the front of the boat.

I’m really excited to see how you and Ron make out with the 20 4t motors.

Original Looper 1
12-18-2022, 09:20 AM
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dandrews75
12-18-2022, 09:24 AM
It may be a temperature sensor and not a pressure sensor. Had an Evinrude Etec 50 go into limp mode due to an increase in engine temperature caused by reduced water flow from weeds over the water pickup screens.

Albert
12-18-2022, 09:31 AM
Mini Max,
I wonder if the 20hp has a pressure sensor from the factory. If so Iím guessing it would be a standard 0-5 or 0-12v sensor. If so it would be pretty easy to just get a regular gauge and mount it up at the front of the boat.

Iím really excited to see how you and Ron make out with the 20 4t motors.

Mini Max
12-18-2022, 09:34 AM
Mini Max,
I wonder if the 20hp has a pressure sensor from the factory. If so Iím guessing it would be a standard 0-5 or 0-12v sensor. If so it would be pretty easy to just get a regular gauge and mount it up at the front of the boat.

Iím really excited to see how you and Ron make out with the 20 4t motors.

There are multiple versions of the 20 hp, aside from 15, 20, 25" legs. Two with tillers, two without tillers, remote control, electric start. They do have a guardian overheat mode so what you suggest is probably true. I am not allowed to do anything electrical in my shop because I caught the ground on fire at my boat yard in Miami with 13,000 volts. I have an electrician/rigger now that tells me so.

dandrews75
12-18-2022, 09:51 AM
Mini Max, I look forward to the day of seeing your boat in the starting line picture at TOP O with the Tohat on the back most likely with estart. Hoping we can really push production engines forward in the Stock Outboard Division. “Race on Sunday Fish On Monday”.

Albert
12-18-2022, 09:58 AM
There are multiple versions of the 20 hp, aside from 15, 20, 25" legs. Two with tillers, two without tillers, remote control, electric start. They do have a guardian overheat mode so what you suggest is probably true. I am not allowed to do anything electrical in my shop because I caught the ground on fire at my boat yard in Miami with 13,000 volts. I have an electrician/rigger now that tells me so.
That 13k volts sounds exciting!

Betcha a coffee all 15-20hp tohastu motors use the same wiring harness and sensors regardless of control configuration. Although it probably used water temp or cylinder head temp for its temperature shut off. Again I would love to see a wiring diagram from a service manual. Would answer a lot of questions for me personally.

Mini Max
12-18-2022, 03:33 PM
Betcha a coffee all 15-20hp tohastu motors use the same wiring harness and sensors regardless of control configuration. Although it probably used water temp or cylinder head temp for its temperature shut off. Again I would love to see a wiring diagram from a service manual. Would answer a lot of questions for me personally.

A Service manual from online dealers is $80.
The installation manual is online https://www.tohatsu.com/marine/common/owners_manual/003-11143-7BB1_MFS9.9-20E_US_EN_web.pdf
There is a dealer down the road I can see if they have one or purchase at the same time with the motor. Mercury has the same engine and I checked stock to find they are on B.O.

The threshold for Stock Outboard participation is the motor. It took 6 months for me to have a Yamato in hand and almost a year for a Tohatsu Ram 50 with Bass tower and gearcase. I was focused and diligent. I grew up not having and working a long time for things so that did not faze me. All my friends growing up bought their outboards with paper route money and built ...wait for it... Mini Max's so to pretend to be boat racers. Its all about online ordering and two day delivery that entry level boat racing is competing against now.

Ron Hill
12-18-2022, 04:12 PM
I don't think they can sell these two strokes in California.

Mini Max
12-20-2022, 05:28 PM
I am OEM with Mercury but I went on line to their portal and none were to be had. Mercury have none.
I live in a tiny town in North Carolina on the Pamlico and the local boat yard has a small ships store, for paint and maintenance parts for the do-it-yourself customers.. Tohatsu listed them as a dealer. I was thinking yea, right but the owner is a friend so I gave him a call. He said sure I have 20's probably 10 in stock, which model do you want! :-)

Its going to be a mix and match.
Manual starting vs electric. Manual.........There are two flywheels, the manual should be lighter.
Remote kit check...........It has all the brackets to connect a 33C Morse throttle cable. My Ram 50 uses a Morse instead of a Bowden throttle cable. No Problem.
Steering check ..........I'm going to use the tilt tube and a push pull cable and helm. You need the drag link.
Power trim check...........Oooo La La Its an experiment right? I was told it will not hold up long if trimmed under full throttle but beats going back to the ramp every test
ECU Uh Oh ..........Seems like the restricted to 10 HP and under group buy the 9.8 hp and take out the restrictor plate and flash the ECU or maybe they just buy a 20 ECU .
..............................................Some one once said anything worth winning was worth cheating for. Its electric, I have no idea how to control that.
Water pressure. Not to worry....The gear case water pick up may need a little work but we do that now to every boat we rig. The guardian mode is an overheat sensor.
Racing TOPO Not in 2023.....Its a National championship and class legal engines only.

Mini Max
12-20-2022, 05:43 PM
https://youtu.be/OrpPHLkDLE0

LittleCharger
12-21-2022, 06:02 AM
https://youtu.be/OrpPHLkDLE0

The GT class is a great class, too bad there are no manufactures of that style of hull in North America, I think there are only one or two Winrace hulls in the North America. One of the guys up here in Canada tried to get some molds brought to Canada from Europe but got screwed over.

A big plus about the class is the ability to run in some conditions that the hydros don't plus they can run on the lakes when not racing.

LittleCharger
12-21-2022, 06:03 AM
https://youtu.be/OrpPHLkDLE0

The GT class is a great class, too bad there are no manufactures of that style of hull in North America, I think there are only one or two Winrace hulls in the North America. One of the guys up here in Canada tried to get some molds brought to Canada from Europe but got screwed over.

A big plus about the class is the ability to run in some conditions that the hydros don't plus they can run on the lakes when not racing.

Albert
12-21-2022, 06:21 PM
It’s interesting that overseas Mercury is interested enough in gt15 to have a press release on their own website about their engine being approved for competition against the tohastu.

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en-gb/nl/dockline/mercury-15-efi-engine-successfully-homologated-for-gt15-racing-class/

Ron Hill
12-22-2022, 12:45 PM
BRF Views:

26,787 Mini Boats
32,868 Hallett Mini Boats
19,709 Snapper Boats

18,410 "Miss BK" Mini Boat Pictures

Seems we've had Mini Boats, why they are gone is another story!

LittleCharger
12-23-2022, 05:56 AM
Itís interesting that overseas Mercury is interested enough in gt15 to have a press release on their own website about their engine being approved for competition against the tohastu.

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en-gb/nl/dockline/mercury-15-efi-engine-successfully-homologated-for-gt15-racing-class/

Tohatsu makes the Mercury so it didn't take any effort on Mercury's part to be an approved motor

Albert
12-23-2022, 05:22 PM
Tohatsu makes the Mercury so it didn't take any effort on Mercury's part to be an approved motor

That makes total sense now that you have pointed it out.

Mini Max
12-29-2022, 06:31 PM
The UIM GT15 class for 9 to 16 yr old racers and the GT30 are well established in Europe. I have spent a lot of time watching videos and I don't see why not build one. After all, the little ships store in our little boat yard in my little town has 10 in stock. That's "available engines" in my book.

Mini Max
02-01-2023, 01:36 PM
Jan 26, 2023, the APBA approved any 20hp four stroke legal in the 15SSR & BSR class on a probationary status. No height, weight, or boat restrictions. Now that we got what we asked for, time to step up.

Albert
02-01-2023, 04:35 PM
I’ve never driven a runabout but it looks like I need to find one and loose ten lbs.

dandrews75
03-13-2023, 06:15 AM
Starting to see some BSR 4 stroke outfits come together. Jim Gardiner has his Tohat now. Went down to the local dealer and bought the motor, how about that?! Someone else Kerry, is buying a Merc, another considering a Suzuki. Has anyone seen a summary of the APBA convention? I’m hearing about things word of mouth. Jim posted a pick of the BSR rule changes out of the SO Tech manual. APBA rebranded just before the convention, what are they doing to promote the sport and get the house in order? The SORC may have inadvertently dictated the future moving forward by allowing the 4 stroke production engines into BSR. If I were the one making the decisions, if SW LLC doesn’t produce any engines or parts this year the 20 SW would be relegated to 20SSH. I would also remove the Y80 and 25XS from the class and relegate them to 20SSH also (maybe move the 25xs to C unrestricted), the Y80 already races there. Same for BSR, 4 strokes would be the class. This would give new people a clear and concise picture of what the classes are. No more chasing legacy engines and and parts! We might actually get to the 21st century yet!

dandrews75
05-29-2023, 06:53 AM
When I saw this post, I thought maybe the world ha comes to its senses, then I saw this You Tube was 7 years old.

My brother, was often chastised by the APBA administration for being ten years a head of what was happening.

On Monday December 5, 2022 I agreed to buy a brand new 15 HP Tohatsu, short shaft, 4 stroke.

I was going o have Ernie Dawe build me a boat for this motor.

I digress, with the Sidewinder's one employee who also built the OMC gearcases, I have spent about thee months trying to figure out how to build OMC gearcases.
It come to this build 25 at $2000 each or build 100 at $700 each. ($50,00 for 25 or $70,000 for 100)....If APBA paid for them their return on their investment would be zero over the next 8 years. If I made them my return would be the same.

Bottom line making racing gearcases is a LOSER!

Ron maybe you should give the masses what they want! But instead of Ron Hill and/or investors taking the risk how about people put their money where their mouth is and pay for it up front? We would quickly see exactly just how much of a demand there is for the OMC gearfoot! This is the difference between small manufacturers and corporate manufacturers like Mercury. I remember how much grief Ron and Ed were taking in bringing the Sidewinder engine to reality. It was a big investment to the tune of 7 figures. You want to make a small fortune in racing? You start with a big fortune!