View Full Version : Mod VP 2006

Ron Hill
02-21-2006, 09:32 PM
Everything has a life...Is Mod VP, except at Parker a DEAD ISSUE???

I think, we should adopt Formula 150 rules, 1,600 pounds, proshaft 2" below the bottom, with Sport C type reinforced cockpit sides....

This would be an 80-85 MPH rig...

Someone care top post the Formula 150 engine rules???

02-22-2006, 09:29 AM
I still think the propshaft deal is a bad thing. A lot of these boats (apparently the Stokers, and the STV's for sure) were setup to run the motor higher. Their handling will be based on how much the gearcase affects the boat.

Make them heavier if you want to slow them down.

Ken M
02-22-2006, 01:23 PM
Why not have a rev limit like F-1 boats?

02-22-2006, 01:31 PM
How would you monitor the rev limit though? I know I don't want my motor limited by the Merc ECU (rev limit or fuel curve).

Weight is still the easiest to check.

Ron Hill
02-22-2006, 02:42 PM
Anyone know the rules??? I think they let you run anything but S-3000 blocks....Rev limiters are hell on rods....In my opinion, they never did anything good for tunnel boat racing...

I would limit CC's on the heads, before I went for a rev limiter....

I'd need to see a boat tested with center steering...at 2 inches below, the start jacking it up, see where the speeds go and see about the handling.

Original MOD VP rules required side water pick up, or about 2 inches below the bottom, as I recall the Stoker Boat did OK in MOD VP, in the OLD DAYS....

A TRUE MOD VP class would require capsules......to run short course racing.

02-22-2006, 05:21 PM
I still say add balast to make weight, let the rest of the setup/engine go to the teams. It's way easier to measure a 2000# boat than to try to limit RPM or engine mechanicals, and anything that takes away boat "tuning" like trim or engine height can be dangerous.

Ron Hill
02-22-2006, 05:28 PM
So, an S-3000 should be 2,000 pounds and back the weight from there???

Maybe....?? What weight for a 2.o liter...1,200???

Barry Strawn
02-22-2006, 08:48 PM
Formula 150 Rules - http://apba-racing.com/Categories/OPC/Rules/Form150RuleBook2004.pdf

Appear to be written my Mercury so if you want some variety, you might have to make some changes.

Ron Hill
02-22-2006, 10:21 PM
Larry Swinford wrote the Formula 150 rules. Mercury doesn't like any of them, I'd bet my ***.....and MORE...Larry, like me, wants more people racing and spending less money...He and I would love to see other motors but Mercury racing on tunnel boats, but no one has experience with them, really. Ted Zahorski modified a Yamaha wand ran a "CLUB FOOT" on a tunnel and won Parker with Brian Daley and Rick Hoffman at the wheel...

I'm trying to attach he rules...

02-22-2006, 10:32 PM
So, an S-3000 should be 2,000 pounds and back the weight from there???

Maybe....?? What weight for a 2.o liter...1,200???

Why have a weight break? All the boats should weigh the same. There wasn't any propshaft height breaks for the guys running the stock 200.

Ron Hill
02-22-2006, 10:37 PM
I just read Formula 150 rules...No S-3000 blocks...No EFI....Actually that makes sense, except, all the MOD VP's in Division V, last year, would have been illegal...

In a LOCAL MOD VP CLASS..I'd vote for Formula 150 Powerhead rules.....I'd ADD: OMC's DO YOUR BEST......1,500-1,600 pounds with an approved capsule, with a top and bottom.

God, the 2.0 liter doesn't get EFI??? Going to reread those rules...Oh, the 2 liter gets bigger carb venturi...

Aslo, reading the CC volume, it appears to me, that the goal was to run PUMP GAS...Maybe, I'll just get a Formula 150 and sell both my MOD VP's...Well, sold the Sleek anyway...ain't got the bread yet...but figure I'll get it.

02-22-2006, 11:29 PM
EFI's, carbs, s-3000 blocks, F150's, where does it end? Just make the weight and run whatcha brung.

Ron Hill
02-23-2006, 09:32 AM
An S-3000 powerhead is $11,000 from Mercury...After someone lilke rON aNDERSON GOES THROUGH IT IS NOW A $1,600 POWERHEAD.

You can build a competitive Formula 150 powerhead, for less than $1,000. A god S-3000 will push a Formula 150 backwards fast engough to swamp it....When their are no rules, the one with the most money wins.

I went broke racing MOD VP when Mercury and OMC were racing MOD VP...MOD VP got down to no boats...just before that there was one OMC and one Mercury...

For Parker, a Speed Limit is the answer for MOD VP......For local races, MOD VP with Formula 150 power head rules make sense to me...Then, when we have 20 LOCAL MOD VP's, change the Parker Rules...

I still feel, even with a capsule, a 90 MPH speed, max, should be the goal....Over 90 people start dying...at 90 we can race locally with GN's and the speeds would be about the same. At 80, we can race with the Nostalgia guys....

I have one S-3000 and I know I can't afford to race it at local races....First of all, it burns $4.00 a gallon gas, and at a rate of 25 an hour...Just the gas is more than I want to spend, add $250 ENTRY FEE, HOTEL, GAS TO THE RACE.... If you have a free boat, and you race 10 races, you'll spend $20,000 a year.... Add racing parts expenses, and AMAZING, no one races...

You put our S-3000, proshaft even with the bottom, she'll go 115, until it blows over....even at 2,000 pounds....and a blow over at 115 will cause a funeral.

02-23-2006, 10:00 AM
2000# boat with an S-3000 will run 115? I'd like to see that. What kind of power are those supposed to make?

I just don't see many privateers getting ahold of S-3000 motors. In the last enduro, what was there?

#22 had a 2.5/260 with compression
#9 had a carbureted fishing motor (200 maybe?)
#48 had a 2.4 (not sure if it was a BP or not)
#140 was in Division 6 and ran a slightly modified V8
#34 (Chad Hill) ran a S-3000 powerhead
#819 - not sure what he ran, but it looked to be a fishing motor
#86 - not sure again, but I believe it was a fishing motor too

To this end, I believe only one team came with the real hardware - the rest of them were running production performance or fishing motors.

Ron Hill
02-23-2006, 11:37 AM
Boat 48 had an S-3000.....

It isn't the guys that ran last year that worry me...it is the guys that want to run this year...Some have KILLER MOTORS on light lay ups....I don't want light lay up V Bottoms running without a transom height....

It is an Enduro, you must finish to win...and BLOW OVERS aren't acceptable to me!

So, how much weight will be required to prevent blow overs?

02-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Ron, boat #48 was Bill and his dad right? The guys that almost went over? Bill told me that motor was an old 2.4 he ran in the late 80's with nothing special done to it.

Killer motor + light layup = fast
Killer motor + 2000# = not so fast

What did Chad's boat weigh last year?

02-26-2006, 10:31 PM
Hey guys, we ran #819. Just to clarify on set-up, ours was as follows:
84 Stoker 600lb hull, center steer
Stock 2.4 200 oval (not Mod VP) dry stacked, w/28cc heads
Av gas with synthetic oil
84 ModVP pre-load pin LU with Dick Sherrer modified water pickup (still in original location on the side)
LU at 2" below
We ran this same LU in the 80's and could get away with it at about 1/2" below the pad. It handled very well there and went about 100mph with a ModVP 2.4 oval port engine @7500 RPM.
For Parker 300, we got a best of 93mph in testing @ 6600 RPM. As for blow-over risk, our GPS in the boat only recorded a high of 87mph on race day. It was obviously fast enough. The near disaster was likely the combination of rough conditions, ill handling boat, and a rusty driver.
As for the combination for ModVP (or div5), I think we need a few limits. The boats need to be heavier to slow them down and prevent blow over. My about 240hp boat drops 12mph if you add 350lbs, but an unlimited engine could still get a heavy boat over 100mph. We should add weight based on a rough formula of engine design and then see how that works out. I'm all for not allowing the most exotic of engines, but don't know how to police that. I think we need to raise the engine height to at least 1" below the pad. That will restore some of the "designed" handling properties to the boats.

02-26-2006, 10:50 PM
I think our boat is about 1300lbs with driver, dry. Should have been about 1400lbs when it flew (at 87mph). This was NOT the lightest ModVP boat ever built...by at least 200lbs.

At 1500 and 1" below the pad, I think it should do about 90mph. That's your target speed, right Ron?

So how about:
1500lbs for 2.4 or crossflow fishing motors.
1650lbs for 2.4 bridgeport and loopers
1800lbs for 2.5's
add 100lbs for efi on anything
Yes, we will need to find a way to check the weight at the event.

03-01-2006, 08:46 AM
EFI, EFI, EFI. You allow it you will kill it faster than you can start it. Pick a fuel system you can tech. Or if you want EFI have it as an open EFI motor, stock EFI is not a good way to go. Ron knows this as he has seen what it has done to classes over the last 10 years. Ron is onto something with rules similar to F150's. Dont allow different weight boats, pick your weight and stay with it. Allow the motors to be worked in order to make them all equal just like F150. The heavier the boat the more inertia it will carry in an accident, thus the safer boats will be the lightest possible. Some of you talk about 1800 lbs plus, why can you not have a 1200-1500lb set up with motor rules that equal all the motors out. Different types of courses will benefit for one motor over another, creating competion and it gives all diferent types of motors a chance to win. And weight MUST be inforced. NO sling to weight=DQ.

Mike Muldrow
03-13-2006, 01:31 PM
I think the weight can become an issue over 1600lbs. We ran at 1600 in Supersport and the boats dig very hard in the corners. Lightened up to 1450 to 1500 the digging in the corners was a lot less. Barrell rolls are not good either. Of the 9 overturned boats in SS all but one was a barrell roll from a hook.
I ran at 2 1/8" below the bottom of the boat with no nosecone. The boat would do 87mph with stock lower unit but propped down to get off the beach in front, I was limited to 80mph.
The F150 motor rules at 1500lbs with no motor height limits would be fun. Mike

04-22-2006, 01:16 PM
The 300 Parker has set it's rules for the Mod VP class and with these rules, boats can choose from three different Divisions: Div V, Div. VI and Div. II (for those of you not familiar with Roman Numerals, that is Divisions 5, 6, and 2.) Division V is the division designed for the true Mod VP but has been down tuned slightly for safety reasons. For example: The Div. V boats must weigh 1350 lbs, dry weight, less driver. The center of the prop shaft must be no less than 2 inches below the bottom of the pad. If drivers/owners donot want to comply with the 2 inch rule, they may choose to "step-up" to the Division VI. Division VI requires a minimum boat weight of 1580 lbs, dry weight, less driver. If this does not appeal to the driver/owner, they may choose to drop down to the Div.II class. Here there is no weight limit, nor is there a prop shaft rule, the only rule is that the engine must have a "club" (stock) foot--no pointy nose cones and no low water pick-ups. These rules are posted under Parker 300 official rules for any one interested. Gentlemen, this gives you three ways to go if you want to run a Mod VP type boat. There will be scales at the race course and you will be weighed at the pre race inspection. Hope we have provided you with a set of rules you like and can comply with--Hope to see you at Parker--Get your race applications in to Ross as soon as possible. I am available to weigh your boat/engine entry anytime we can work it out prior to the race--just get your entry in and we will find a day convenient to all. No entry, no weigh. :) Rod Zapf (310) 488-3563

wing nut
05-03-2006, 11:51 PM
ive been following this thred but im not sure if my boat will qualify. i have a 1982 laser comp. hull. single seat, center steer. motor is a 150hp block with 2.4L bridgeport efi.

more importantly, where are these races going to be held??


05-04-2006, 01:40 PM
Race is in Parker, Arizona. There is a class for you to run in.