An Amazing Story [Archive] - Page 2 - Boat Racing Facts Forums

ronus747

11-06-2006, 02:27 PM

Wayne,

First off, I want to thank you for bringing back such wonderful memories, I think your posts, pictures and insights are just what the sport needs.. I’d also like to thank Ron and Ted; you guys have done something really special here. Anyway Wayne, I couldn’t help falling back in time as I was reading your posts and the pictures and columns on the OD worlds actually brought back the smells and senses that I felt most of my life. Think back, do you remember feeling the spray hit your face as the unlimited hydra’s cornered while testing? It was pretty wild watching those guys come basically right at us down there on the sandy beach. I thought, “Holy s*@t, we can get killed sitting down here”! I remember how god awful hot it was too, the trees were no taller than me at that time so there was no shade to hide in. They had security people walking around and nobody was allowed in the cooling water after the course closed. Of course we didn’t pay any attention to that rule because it was so hot, we were drinking a bit and decided to crab walk between the boats down to the lake and crawl in. About the time I was all lathered up, security was there to throw us out, quickest bath I ever had. I also got to meet an idol of mine since childhood, Bill Muncey was the nicest most down to earth guy I ever met and it was a treat to stop by in his motor home way down the other end and chat. If I recall correctly, he had a broken foot caused by falling off his hauler the week before. My father was running OD that weekend and Bill said, that he and the rest of you guys were the crazy ones, going over 100 mph on a piece of plywood his job was simple with all the boat he had. I also got to meet and talk with Mickey Remond, nice guy too but not near as down to earth as Bill was. Mickey sure ran good that weekend though and came out on top. Dayton was the first UIM event for us so we weren’t sure what to expect but everything went off perfectly from my recollection. I noticed some people in your pictures from our area, Don Woods, Joe Martin, Dwight McClellan, Jim Warren, my brother and even one of myself. I had to laugh because a friend of mine came with us to Dayton; he had an Afro at the time, now I’m not talking small Afro. His was like Foxy Cleopatra’s in Austin Powers Gold member. I remember my dad’s boat conking out after we released him from the pits, Dave swam out (we all knew I couldn’t swim) to get him as the seconds were ticking and I seriously believe his hair held him up and enabled him to get back in quick enough to get him out of the pits in time.
I’m sitting here laughing about little things that have happened over the years and realize that I’ve been away from racing now for about 16 years and thanks to you I can bring back the memories like they were yesterday. Keep up the great work; if I can ever help don’t hesitate to ask.

Dave McClellan

Master Oil Racing Team

11-06-2006, 04:10 PM

You know what?.....I found a few more transparencies today that for some reason were never mounted. I will try to post a few of these tonight. You're right about Bill Muncey. He had to walk out on crutches to get to Atlas Van Lines. I wish I would have had the courage to walk up to him and talk. I had seen him at the national meetings, but I was always too intimidated to speak to him. Another regret. A young driver by the name of Chip Hanauer came down to sit in our pits and watch as we rigged up and tested. I don't remember who he was driving for that weekend, but I wish I would have stopped to talk to him. He was clearly interested in what we were doing, but I was too shy to introduce myself.

It was hot I remember, but in those photos I found today showed at least one rain shower came through to cool things off. That is until the sun came back with humidity to boot. Bill Van was really going through that Gatorade.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-06-2006, 06:50 PM

A break in the action with a thundershower.

ronus747

11-07-2006, 06:12 AM

I do remember the rain now, actually it stated at night. We had borrowed
Jim Warren's (Marrieta Ohio Jim) Opal GT to go find a beer distributor in the area. It started
raining and his car over heated so we nursed it back to the pits filling it
with polar water we had bought. It did dry up eventually and it once again
became pretty hot. I?m sure you all are more used to that heat living in
Texas. Before you move on into 1978 or so I wanted to bring up a time in
Hinton West Virginia, bear with me it was either 1976 or 1977, the stock
nationals were one year and the Pro national were the other. That?s the
first time I met your father, what a gracious man, strong willed and
confident. I still remember his Master Oil demonstration. That stuff could
really expand, I think it was an hour or so later we checked on that little
drop your dad squeezed out, it was like the size of a grapefruit.
Anyway, you talk of your shyness in meeting Bill Muncey, something I never
had a problem with but at the time, I was probably more in awl of your
accomplishments than anyone. I remember the Japanese Yamato team came and
ran with Jim McKean, Sean was young back then and if I recall correctly one
of the Japanese drivers, Conshirmo (spellings probably wrong) was the same
driver that blew over backwards at Dayton 0350 Worlds sometime later on. I
believe he broke his arm in the accident. Coming down on the start he was
pinched on both sides entering the chute and just took off. Time has eroded
my memory of who the pinching boats were but they closed the door real
quick on him. Back in Hinton at the nationals I also remember meeting Debbie,
you're right she was very shy at that time, she had your camera equipment
draped around her neck most of the time taking shots of you who seemed to
be in the cockpit most of the time. We met when of course as every boat
racer,I had to buy a T-shirt, do you remember the Master Oil Racing T's
with the photograph of you on front? Those were way cool shirts and since
my whole wardrobe consisted of boat racing T-shirts, I had to have one. I
must admit that I took a picture of Debbie on the trailer not knowing she
was your wife, I wish I could find it now to give to you, if you saw the
look on her face trying to figure out why this A-hole was snapping a shot
of her????..it was classic hands on hips. Most guys remember the differant heats they ran, thats something that came later for me, at this juncture I was remembering just the great times I had at the races. I'm sure it's all good now still but I have a feeling that we can never match how great it was in those years. I could listen to you guys forever talk about yesteryear I'm getting older now but when I was a kid and part of the scenery I can remember Mel Kirts and younger Jerry and Dan, Dick O'dea and a young driver he had driving for him named John Shubert, a younger Kay Harrison, Jim McKean, Lyle Mason, Quincey Welding, Bill OFalls, Kings Racing Team, The Shakeshafts, John Stevens, Ray Nydahl and a younger Pete, Gerry Waldman ect... Remember the monster trailers that Gerry and Quincey used to show up with? This is what makes this site so damn nice, I noticed a few pages back everyone ran off on the insurance issues (I won't go that far and take away from your story Wayne) but I know there are some that feel because of advancement it's just not the same as the earlier days, a time I would call the golden age of boat racing. If we could get that back the racing would be just perfect.

Dave

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 06:36 AM

After I get done with Dayton, Hinton Pro Nationals is next Dave. That little demonstration with Master Oil is one that my Dad liked to do because it really showed how much that oil could move on its own.

On the T shirt---they were made for a Master Oil promotional at the OD World Championships but they weren't ready in time. The original boat was supposed to be Shadowfax with the D Konig, but we had bad lighting and the image was too small to make for a good pic. We always tested in the morning because South Texas winds start kicking up about 10 am. But the boats are backlit then. The clock was ticking to get the photo off so we finally had to settle for an afternoon run one day. The 700 hydro was too fast for my brother Mark to catch in the frame at close range so we ran the 350 hydr0. I gave him my Nikon with a motor drive and 200 mm lens with a full 36 exposure roll. I made a slow pass for him to prefocus and told him when I got close on the fast runs just press down the button and follow through. As it turned out, only one photo had the full frame of the boat. The one slow pass where he prefocused. I always hated that picture because the whole boat was ploughing through the water. But we ran out of time. We didn't even get them in time for Dayton so the first time we sold any was at Hinton and we weren't even advertising there. But we had a whole bunch to get rid of. They did become popular and we unloaded most of them there.

As far as Debbie goes, there were a number of people at Hinton that didn't even know we were married. We had only been married four months at that time and we stuck close to our pits. We were on one end and now I really regret not walking all the way to the other end with my camera. There would have been many pits shots I could sure use now. Especially of a lot of the East Coast guys I didn't cross paths with that much.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 07:11 AM

Dave--Here's that T shirt you mentioned. I still have several. You can see what a dog that boat looks like in this pic. But all the other frames only had the motor or the pickleforks:mad: ;) Oh well. Other than that photo the shirts turned out great. Good colors, good transfer and the shirt quality was good. Joe said he had some shots of people wearing it, so when we get to Hinton I think I might post pics of whoever is wearing one.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 08:26 AM

Hey Dan M........check these out. From the slides that weren't mounted.

Jerry Drake and you getting Kurt Mischke started. Jerry's got a strain on cranking that Konig brute and you are straining to hold the transom up, and keep Jerry from pulling you sideways. The only way is for Jerry to grit his teeth and snap it. I guess I could have set my cameras down and gone out to help you. ;) But....if I did....I wouldn't have gotten these pics.:D

Dan M

11-08-2006, 02:22 PM

Wayne,

Somewhere I have an autographed picture of Kurt thanking me for the help during the weekend. A lot of the Europeans had them back then.I'll see if I can find it and post it here. Kurt's english was a little better than my German, but being boat people it was easy to communicate with him with a lot of pointing and hand gestures. Jerry Drake was another all around super guy. Never really got to know him too well, but he always had a helping hand for anyone that needed it. That laydown boat was really awesome to watch. If you look at the pictures closely, my lifting hand is on an "afterplane". The front of that boat would ride about 2 feet above the water, and the back would just have the afterplanes skimming. I think they helped the boat to spill air so that it could run that high in the front, but still be under control. I know that Kurt had many European championships, but I don't know a lot of detail. Did he run "factory" Konig stuff for Dieter? Nothing but good memories of those times.

Dan:D

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 02:35 PM

I noticed your hand was holding the afterplane Dan. That boat was actually Hans Krage's that he left over here after the OF World Championships in 1976. Kurt's number was 69. I don't really know the arrangement between Kurt and Dieter, but to me it was kind of like a privateer arrangement with his own boat but with factory support on all the new and latest. But I am not sure. I know that they were closely associated though. Kurt won many titles and of the World titles the two I am sure of are OB World Championships in 1968 and 1976. Jerry Drake was a top driver in South Africa and raced a lot in Europe before he immigrated to America. I am not sure why he did not race here, but he was great friends with most of the drivers from Berlin.

Jeff Lytle

11-08-2006, 05:09 PM

Notice that Kurt is using a 700cc Konig motorcycle block. The plugs are set on an angle.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 06:05 PM

....is there a merit badge for your scouts for scoping out something different? Good Job Jeff. Helps keep things straight too.:D

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 08:11 PM

Some more pit shots from the photo strip.

MN1

11-08-2006, 09:21 PM

Hi Wayne,
I've been to a few Alky races during the last 30 years and would like to know about how a good motor sounds compared to a weak one.
I've seen some fast boats at Depue that have this certain sound, it's a different tone, (a bigger whap). Is this because it's a better motor or because of Nitro?
Mark Nelson

Master Oil Racing Team

11-08-2006, 09:29 PM

Have too many photos to keep track of and don't want to duplicate posts & I have done that before. I started to write a "B" in the upper right hand corner of the slides that I had previously posted. No system yet for the B&W. But this series that are not mounted, I can't keep track of. They are all from Dayton 1977 so I'll just do them all now. Actually, I'm heading out to run pipe at 4 am, so won't finish until maybe Friday.

Doug Hall Y51

11-09-2006, 04:47 PM

Hey Wayne, How many World and National Championships and World Records are held by the three guys on the trailer with your dad? I am going to guess a bunch.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-10-2006, 06:15 AM

..........I am the wrong guy to answer that Doug. They all started long before I did, and continued winning long after I was gone. I know Dan had at least one national championship before I met him and he had a very long run. Since you got an inside connection to the guy in the middle, you could fill us in on that part.;)

Master Oil Racing Team

11-10-2006, 05:42 PM

Sorry to drag this part out but it's the first race I ever went to where I was able to get photos of almost everyone entered in the heats. I am not sure of what Don Wood or Rick Dertinger look like, and my mind is real fuzzy on Tim Crimmons but I think most everyone is in a pic. For some strange reason I didn't have any closeups or boat photos of Steve Jones. Steve is from Corpus Christi and he and I tramped many miles between TV, radio and Newspapers promoting racing in South Texas.

So coming up is the story of the actual racing. This part of An Amazing Story is dedicated to my good friend and boat racing legend Tim Butts. He had just started racing OD, and will tell you to this day he was terrified of the speed and power of those boats. That makes this part all the more amazing because.........when he was one with his boat........he was ready!

Master Oil Racing Team

11-13-2006, 09:46 AM

It's been a long time ago, but it seems to me the first heat was overcast with the water a little bit rough. Not bad, as we could run over 100, but enough for some little holes in the water, especially from the wakes still traveling through the bottom turns 3 and 4 where we were milling. With 15 boats, there's a lot of wakes.

I made a bad start and was running somewhere around 5th or 6th when David Westbrook dropped a sponson starting into turn three and his boat did a violent spin. He was thrown over the right sponson and his thigh was struck by the lower unit. According to the newspaper article it was on the second lap, but in the article I wrote for Powerboat I wrote that it was before completion of the first lap.:confused: In the newspaper interview I told the reporter that he had to have hit something in the water that was hard and heavy. That was before David, driving under a Belgian flag, sent word from the hospital what had happened. I didn't see him before they took him off, but I did see his boat. The bottom half of the skeg on his lower unit was broken off and cracked a five inch motor swivel bracket. It was actually his leg that broke that stuff. David was very calm and cool during the time he was in the water and when the rescue team got there. He was holding the pant leg of his uniform with his leg barely hanging on and he told the rescue team what the situation was before they loaded him into the basket.

I was running right behind and to the inside of David when it happened and it was just an explosion of water. Jerry Kirts was in the lead followed by Tim Butts when the black flag came out.

ronus747

11-14-2006, 08:46 PM

Wayne,
I have Don Woods circled in one of your previous pictures posted here. If I recall, he moved from Fairmont WVa. to I believe Nashville Tenn.

12274

Master Oil Racing Team

11-15-2006, 08:40 AM

.............I need to turn that negative around for a better look.;) :D

Mark--I wasn't ignoring your question. I just missed your post earlier. That's kind of tough because a Konig has a little different sound than a Yamato which has a different sound than a Merc Quincy, and I haven't heard a Rossi or some of the newer ones. A Crescent also had a distinctive sound, but I kind of forgot how it was.

I don't particularly remember anything distinct about how nitro sounds because I only knew for sure certain drivers that ran it. Mostly Canadian. But I would say the one thing about the sound of a really good motor is that it is solid. No changes in tone when the throttle is down. I have heard some motors that weren't quite up to snuff that had kind of a rattle. That whap sound you talk about I think must be what I mean by a solid sound. And one of the things I can remember hearing, particularly at DePue, is one of those big six hole Merc Quincy's when it is really running. With all cylinders in sync and pumping out that power they kind of get a drone sound flying down the straights. That is the same type of sound when you watch an old B & W movie of World War II and hear the drone of the motors on a bomber. I used to do the same thing with a dual engine outboard. You back off the throttle of one motor to match the other and you will get a droning sound. I think when a motor is right, and all cylinders are equal it will produce the kind of effect you are talking about.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-15-2006, 09:23 AM

To get the required 2 hours between heats per UIM rules and mesh with the Unlimited schedule, this first heat was run on Saturday. There was plenty of time for the butterflys to come back to roost while we waited for the ambulance return and of course we were all concerned about David.

I replaced my dark tint bubble shield with a clear one to read the water better. It would be my last race with a bubble shield.

I made a good start and hit the first turn on the inside. Tim went through in a wider arc and had better acceleration. He came out of the turn first. I hung in right behind his roostertail. Just prior to setting up for the first turn on lap 2, I checked over my right shoulder and my bubble shield blew away. I got water in my face in the turn, and I lost a lot of ground on the back straight trying to figure out how to drive.

I couldn't race in my normal position because the wind in my face was blowing my eyelids away from my eyes. It was not a good feeling. I found that I could get closer to the cowling and a little lower to help deflect some of the wind, but tears would puddle up in my eyes and I couldn't see very well. So I turned my head just a little to the left, and although my eyes continued to tear up, the wind blew the tears away. Then in the turns my eyes would get soaked from Tim's roostertail.

Going into the final turn on the last lap I pulled up alongside Tim on the outside. Unbeknown to me at the time Jerry Kirts was also sneaking up. He was just to the outside of my roostertail. I had not been looking around anymore for other boats. I was just doing what I could to stay in the hunt and I wasn't driving like I normally would. When going through a turn and Tim blasted my face with some water, I would swing wide sharply, then get back into the turn. All of this was causing Jerry some fits because he would then have to quickly correct to keep from being washed down.

In that final turn Tim's sponson tapped hard and shot a ball of water directly in my face and eyes. Man, that hurt. I immediately drifted wide to the right because I was too close and didn't want anymore of that. That's when Jerry Kirts ducked in behind my roostertail and made a run for the finish. Tim turned in the fastest time of the event averaging just over 79 mph. Jerry finished 2nd just two seconds behind Tim and I came in a half second behind Jerry. It was a good race for all of the five laps.

Dan Kirts was 4th, followed by Steve Jones, Erwin Zimmerman, Wilfried Weiland and Mike Dertinger.

ronus747

11-15-2006, 07:19 PM

How did I know I'd get that response..........;) :p :D
Come on Wayne, use your imagination.....;)
When I get some time, I'll see if I can find a pic for ya.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-18-2006, 10:43 AM

....I found one. It's at the end with him by at the podium. Later.

Heat number two was one of my most memorable races. I had gone to a motorcycle store the evening before and picked up a couple pair of goggles. No more bubble shields.

I made another good start. I led going through the first turn and we were really hauling down the back straight. I figure we were running over 110 with Tim on my hip. Through turns 3 and 4 Tim pulled up beside me and just a little back. I think this is where the famous "Water Wars" photo was taken. Tim kept up the same lines as he did in the first heat and came out of the turn quicker than me. We dueled side by side down the front straight and he got ahead of me at the turn. He didn't chop me, but he held me to my lane and I couldn't accelerate out of the turn as fast as him.

Once he got out front we flew down the back straight with me a little back. He didn't have any top end on me, but he had me in acceleration and now he could control the turn, taking whichever lane he wanted. Tim had been driving the perfect race. This, a guy who never drove to win any motor bigger than a B only weeks before. With Tim out front, I wasn't backing off any and that old motor of Marshall's was hanging in there with Tim's new square block. I can still feel the sensation of battling with Tim down those straights. We were running as fast as the kilo record I set the previous year and all either one of us could think about was neither one could back off or the other would take the victory.

Jerry Kirts finished third, but on the final turn he clipped a bouy and earned a dsq. Tim turned that heat in exactly the same time as he did the previous heat, and somehow I was 1 second slower than when I ran without the bubble shield. Jerry was 1 1/2 seconds behind me, so I was still an exciting race through the complete five laps. Dan was way off the pace finishing 11th.

It was West German Kurt Mischke who captured third followed by Don Wood, Erwin Zimmerman from Austria, Rex Hall, Wilfried Weiland from Austria, Dennis McClellan, Tim Crimmons racing under the Belgian flag, and Jimmie Nichols. Steve Jones DNS and Canadian Rick Dertinger flipped. He must have torn something up because he didn't compete in the two final heats.

jrome

11-18-2006, 01:39 PM

This is the picture of the famous "Water Wars" heat that was on the front page of the Dayton, Ohio newspaper. The Unlimited Hydroplanes were pretty upset because they always made the front page. This race was so good that it made the front page!:D

Master Oil Racing Team

11-20-2006, 07:50 AM

I was very sorry to hear of Larry Latta losing his battle with cancer. He too was part of the 1977 Dayton Hydroglobe experience. He along with many other drivers came not to drive but be a witness to the event. There were many drivers, pit crews, officials, and fans there not only from the Pro ranks, but also stock, mod and limited inboard.

Larry is in the white T shirt with a camera and telephoto lens on a tripod. Sure wished he could have shared some of his stories with us of his long career in racing. He was very quiet, and reserved and a very nice guy. He had an amazing amount of stamina to drive C service through F for year after year. I'll post a few things on the encylopedia thread a little later for a place for the people who knew him best to tell what they can of his story.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-22-2006, 08:48 AM

Pro championship racing in the U.S. normally consisted of 5 laps on a 1 mile course, 4 on a 1 1/4 mile course or 3 on a 1 2/3rds mile course. UIM rules have a minimum as well as a maximum distance for World Championship events. The larger classes run longer distances. At Dayton, we ran the minimum required for OD under UIM rules, which was 10 Km. 5 laps on a 1 1/4 mile course. That's 25 miles total over the 4 heats, mostly over 100 mph, from flag to flag. That's quite a strain for those motors AND lower units. For that reason we planned to run MX-237 in our fuel.

In local races we normally ran a standard 20:1 methanol/castor oil mix. In the championship events we would run what we came to call the "Black" fuel. The black mixture consisted of replacing 8 oz of Castor Oil with Master Oil, plus 8 oz of Toluene to get it to mix. While MX 237 mixes perfectly and instantly with gasoline, it does not mix at all with methanol. The Black formula was invented by Bobby Wilson, 25-T. The only problem was that it is a pain to mix and does not always mix the same each time as the oil varies from crop to crop and country to country (it is a vegetable oil base). I explained the procedure a long while back on another thread, but maybe a lot of you never saw it.

You have to mix it in 5 gallon batches. First swirl 8 0z of Master Oil together with a 8 oz of castor oil in a 1 gallon glass jug. It blends easily. Then add 8 oz of toluene and shake vigorously until the oil is mixed. That goes easily too. Add methanol to fill up half the gallon jug and shake that vigorously as well. The mixture becomes a cloudy white. It is only an emulsion at that time. Top off the gallon jug and shake as best you can. Without much air space you mostly just turn it over and around until the whole gallon is cloudy. Pour that into a BLACK fuel can that has 2 gallons of methanol. Shake good. Fill up to the five gallon mark, and shake or stir as you can to get the mixture distributed throughout. It is still cloudy, but diluted. Let it set overnight. In the morning when you pull the spout up there should be a thin brown rig around the spout where it meets the fluid surface and also a brown ring on the can around the perimeter of the surface of the fuel. Then the fuel should be crystal clear. Every now and then there would be no ring and the fuel did not have a cloudy look, but it was NOT crystal clear. I think it may have had something to do with humidity when we mixed it or maybe the age of the methanol (again humidity if the drum wasn't full). If it wasn't clear the plugs would foul in no time. The Master Oil mixture was always in a black fuel can and the standard racing fuel in a blue can.

Right before we went to Dayton my Dad experimented with a chemical that could make MX237 water soluble for use as a coolant for machining. More machine shops used coolants than a straight cutting oil. The chemical worked great in mixing Master Oil with water, but it was still only an emulsion that would not break out. My Dad decided we would use that chemical to blend our fuel instead of toluene and the old method. I don't remember what the chemical was, but it did make Master Oil blend in right away and looked OK, but we hadn't tested it. Jack and I protested, but my Dad was the sponsor and pit boss so we ran with it.

After the second heat I told my Dad that the motor was great down the straights, but it was not coming off the corners like it should. Jack always checked plugs between heats and these were more oily than the ones in the first heat. MX 237 is non flammable and we ran it to protect the crank, bearings and upper cylinder. Since it doesn't burn, if you run too much it will accumulate and foul the plugs. Toulene was flammable, but I don't remember anything about the new chemical. Anyway, we decided to switch back to the standard "Blue" fuel. We still had residue of the Black to burn off the next heat.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-22-2006, 01:13 PM

The water had gotten rougher by the time the gun fired for the third heat. I had my timing down with my 10 second sweep Heuer stopwatch. You could tell where you were at any point in the final approach area down to a half second or better.

I hit the start wide open on the inside with only inches to spare. Tim already had overtaken me twice and I just had a third and second to show for my efforts. Jerry Kirts was making some good moves at the last minute. Dan Kirts had problems one heat, but he was back in the mix. Only half the schedule had been run so the rest of the field was not out yet either. Anything could happen, especially with the water more stirred up. The laydown of Kurt Mischke would have an advantage if it continued to worsen. And Erwin Zimmerman and Wilfried Weiland had much experience in rough water where in Europe they race while traffic is on the river.

I was pushing hard and Tim chased this time but not able to come alongside as he had in the first two heats. Two things were happening. The one I noticed was that my motor was accerating out of the turns much better and had an instant response. What I didn't know was that Tim was fighting for all he was worth to stay in the race AND keep his V8 boat upright. He had tested only a few times in this boat and raced only two heats prior to Dayton. The hardware and mounting brackets were newly installed and had never fully seated in yet. The two previous heats were long, grueling and high speed. During that third heat the thrust socket started working loose and it was all Tim could do to keep from losing control . In spite of that he was able to maintain second though not pushing me. This was the first heat I was able to back off and check who was close. As it was, I had a good lead and was able to back off some to save the motor. I couldn't back off too much because it could come down to a final heat and the championship decided on time. But, if I pushed the whole way, I could tear something up either this heat or the final.

Once again Jerry Kirts made his move on the final lap and passed Tim to take second place. I finished a little over 10 seconds ahead of Jerry with Tim about three seconds behind him. Got to go to work all night. Finish rest of results next day or two.

Jeff Lytle

11-22-2006, 02:49 PM

Hi Wayne.......awsome as usual!

Got to send in an eagle eye report though........Got a feeling you're going to like this one.

Look at your testing report closely, you can see the outline of an outer rotary valve case on the paper!! Looks like it was placed on the paper with the carbs facing North and South--you can just see the upper opening.

Cool!!

Does it still smell good too? :D

Jeff Lytle

11-22-2006, 05:33 PM

I've been to a few Alky races during the last 30 years and would like to know about how a good motor sounds compared to a weak one.
I've seen some fast boats at Depue that have this certain sound, it's a different tone, (a bigger whap). Is this because it's a better motor or because of Nitro?
Mark Nelson

I remember being able to tell what engine was on the water simply from it's sound. I'm not referring to engine make, as they all have a distintive ring, I'm speaking of Konigs in particular. I could have my back to the beach, or be far from the action and easily tell a 250 from a 5 or 700. The RPM's had alot to do with it.......In fact, the 700's were the easiest because they had such a harsh crackling sound compaired to the others. I remember being in a pit area on a peninsula (sp) and hearing all the rigs in front of me and behind launching for their heats. There was always one I could identify clearly and more distintive over all the others and he launched behind me. I owned that engine years later, and the inside was ported and polished to the nines, and yes, it ran a 20% nitro mix.

As far as the sound of a strong engine goes: A strong PRO engine in my days did not come straight out of the box. There was ALOT of room for improvement on any V series engine I got into. Simple things like exhaust port to elbow matching (and who can forget those awful gaskets!! There was HP being wasted there BIG TIME!) to a mild port and polish to a full house port matching and altering job. We used to open up the transfer hole in the piston to provide a cleaner larger area for the charge to flow, and spend hours with a Foredom tool grinding and polishing the insides EVERYWHERE. Everything was weighed, matched and measured on my stuff.

A box stock, (if you can call it that,) Konig was still fast enough to make the average guy crap his pants, but the winners always went a notch or 2 further. I remember seeing a piston that Dan Kirts loaned a fellow racer who had stuck one and needed a spare. I noticed finger ports in the piston skirt at once, even when it was still in Dan's hand, and chuckled when the borrower asked Dan "What are these?" Dan just shrugged and said "It's nuthin', just finger ports". KONIGS DIDN'T HAVE FINGER PORTS IN THE LOWER PISTON SKIRTS!! see what I mean? Dan liked to win, and tried alot of newer ideas that worked on other forms of 2 stroke racing. Eg. sleds, (Dan used to race sleds remember?) karts, and motocross.

Danny's engines always sang, literally. So did Jerry's, Tom's, Tommy's and Jim's. The whole Kirts clan knew what they were doing with the racing 2 stroke, and Deiter knew it too. :)

Master Oil Racing Team

11-24-2006, 08:58 AM

Your eagle eye report was very close, but not exact. Had you seen the sheet in person you would have realized the circle was too small. I was wondering what the stain was when I was scanning it, but after your post I went and got a standard Konig rotary valve. It matches perfectly. So it was not the housing, but the guts.:D When we tested, I would lay my test book on the deck while I wrote up the report of what happened. We had some carbuerator problems during those tests and I guess Jack or myself put the disc on paper to keep grit off.

I had been up over 36 hours on a job that should have take 20-24. We had to postpone our midday thanksgiving meal from noon to evening. On my way home Debbie called from the hospital to inform me she had our son Andrew over there for tests. He had a fever and severe doubling-over abdominal cramps. I immediately headed for the hospital, but she told me to go home, get a shower and go to sleep. Our daughter Alexis was home by herself. She told me not to be worrying and to think positive. We prayed and I went home, but I couldn't sleep. They had to transfer him to another hospital to do a CAT Scan. I just felt tired, helpless and didn't know what to do. So I turned on BRF just to get my mind on something else. When I saw your post Jeff, it really helped settle me down. He's resting today, but no results yet of the latest test. Symptoms are appendecitus.

Jeff Lytle

11-24-2006, 12:01 PM

but after your post I went and got a standard Konig rotary valve. It matches perfectly.

This really IS an amazing story!!

Good thing they got to the hospital when they did Wayne.........A burst appendix is not a good thing !

Tell him from all of us that it's a good thing though.....He'll just have to add a little more lead to make weight! :D

Jeff Lytle

11-24-2006, 01:48 PM

Someone has been busy grinding the exhaust openings on the elbows!!

Did Jack do all your engine work?

Master Oil Racing Team

11-24-2006, 09:20 PM

No Jeff, after Jack taught me I did a lot of the work myself except changing out liners and lower unit work. I really regret not having any pictures of Jack's shop when I first started. He had stuff everywhere including one of his old runabouts "Stinker" hanging from the rafters. Sometimes his pet monkey would watch us work on motors from a rafter above the work bench. When he would get curious and come down to pick up something on the bench all Jack had to do was pick up the hose with the air chuck and that little monkey was back on the rafters.

I was as green as they get as far as motors go when I started racing, but I spent a lot of time at Jack's shop in Baytown. The first motor I overhauled with him was the 4 carb C Konig we got from Marc's Dad. I watched him tear it down, then he made me put it back together with the new parts as he watched me. He always had country music playing and I liked rock n roll. Certain country songs take me back to Jack's shop.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-29-2006, 06:17 AM

Okay...back to finish with results of the third heat.

Once again Dan Kirts finished 4th, this time 5 seconds behind Tim. Erwin Zimmerman again 5th followed by Don Wood, Kurt Mischke, Steve Jones, Rex hall, Tim Crimmons, and Wilfried Weiland. Dennis McClellan DNF and Jimmie Nichols DNS. This heat was 10 seconds slower than the first two. The water was continuing to get a little rougher, although it didn't affect top end---we just had to be a little more careful through the turns. But the primary reason was there was not a head to head chase for the checkered flag.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-29-2006, 07:16 AM

..........two hours. Man....you start thinking about different scenarios. What you could have done differently? What if you make a bad start? Will the motor and/or lower unit last? New plugs. Sometimes you get a bad one. Recheck all electrical connections. Go sit down and talk with pit crews and fellow racers. Get back up and check something else you thought of. Make sure motor is secured. Remember what happened to Tim? Get a slug of Gatorade from Bill Van. Check the time. Still more than an hour to go. Go sit down again. Not much to do if everything is ready. Or is it ?. Jack's double checking everything. Doesn't get much better than Jack handling wrenches. The others are all doing the same thing. Going through and double checking or maybe even major motor work. Sometimes gathering in little groups and chatting about whatever. Isn't this fun?

Master Oil Racing Team

11-30-2006, 06:57 PM

........we watched the Unlimiteds race their way to the finals.

Master Oil Racing Team

11-30-2006, 08:26 PM

The trophy for the Unlimiteds was on display at the podium. It had some fine lines. It was hard to pass by without stopping to admire the beautiful sculpting.

ronus747

12-01-2006, 03:25 PM

Hell Wayne, I was there and you've got me all goose bumply again...
Keep it coming

How's Andrew doing ???

Master Oil Racing Team

12-01-2006, 04:31 PM

......just a couple of days hanging out at the hospital. Seems like there were a couple of other cases. One girl the grade below him went in with the same symptoms, got released the next day then went back with it worse a couple of days later. Their white blood cells had gone up half again what normal was and acute abdominal pain, but the CAT scans were iffy. After everything turned back to normal, they were both released.

Our football team is going to the regionals tommorrow to play at the Alamodome so we're getting ready to head out for that. More on the story in a day or so.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-03-2006, 05:59 PM

One of the things D Konigs did was move a lot of volume of air and fuel with the given displacement and the RPM's we were turning. It had been more of a problem than with the smaller bore engines. When you pop the cap of a fuel tank on a D Konig it would go POOOMPH! Then you would see an atomized fog of air and fuel swirling around inside. There was a serious problem with the Konig style carbs when dealing with this kind of internal pressures.

We went back and forth over the years between the standard Konig system with a crankcase pressurized fuel system pumping into the fuel tank through a checkvalve versus electric fuel pumps. Either system had to deliver massive amounts of fuel to keep these D's pumping out the horsepower. And that was another consideration.

The Europeans were used to running longer distances and were therefore more in tune with fuel requirements. The race at Dayton was more top speed and which means more fuel use than European racing, but we were running 20% further than our standard races in America. We needed 5 gallon tanks to go the distance. Actually I think we went to a 6 gallon tank, because we were getting only a little better than 1 mile per gallon of methanol.

The primary weak link were the carbuerator floats. Regardless of which system you went with, the fuel regulators were ultimately the floats, and in the D's there was a lot of pressure involved.

The first post is part of my test sheet D-16 indicating a float problem. The sheet after that was D-17 I had posted previously with the rotary valve housing stain on it. If you look back you will note we had worked on that problem.

The next pic is Tim working on adjusting his check valve. It was just a simple check valve with a brass tube coming off the side with a spring and ball bearing to relieve some pressure.

Ron Hill

12-03-2006, 07:47 PM

Marcel Belleville told me he blew in the wrong line of his Konig tank at Valleyfield, and when he pulled the line out of his mouth, the alcohol fuel squirted into his eye. He raced the next heat, but later went to the doctor. The Canadian doctor, gave him something for his eye, and it was was not the right right stuff... Burned his eye out. That is why Marcel only has one eye...

Some how, Wayne, I've known all a long that you had some pictures like that one above, nice trophy.....for sure!!!!

Master Oil Racing Team

12-04-2006, 08:55 AM

I never knew that's what happened to Marcel's eye. Man, I don't see how he could have driven after a shot in the eye like that. The methanol sucks up all the water, then you have to open your eye for it to evaporate. What pain. I guess it would soak into the tissue though if you kept your eye shut. It happened to him then before I met him, because I always knew Marcel to have only one eye.

And on the previous photo Ron..... The editor of Motorsport told me to always keep an eye out for such subjects:cool: He said it helped sell magazines. I don't know one way or another, but it just became a habit after that.;)

Master Oil Racing Team

12-04-2006, 09:35 AM

From the April 73 Motorsport

Master Oil Racing Team

12-04-2006, 08:11 PM

....& now back to the waiting for the final heat.

Tim was setting on 1025 points with two firsts and a third. I was the only one able to beat Tim if I could win the final heat. I had a second to go with two firsts. Jerry Kirts could only finish second overall with 1000 points if he won the final heat. Dan did not have enough points to finish in the top three even with a win, but between himself and his brother Jerry, they still had enough speed and will to become a spoiler.

During the two hour wait I did some calculating, as I suspect the others did too. In order to defend my title, I had to win the final heat. If Tim finished second, I had to beat him by 5.7 seconds. If he finished third or lesser, the championship was mine. Up until now, Tim and I were running only a couple of seconds apart with the exception of when his transom assembly was loosened up. My Marshall Grant Konig was running at its peak, and the Ron Anderson Konig of Tim's was too. It meant that unlike my normal style of racing where I could back off if I had a comfortable lead, I would have to push for all its worth if I broke out in front. I didn't like that, especially with a D which was very hard on a lower unit. You can't win when that motor suddenly revs very high and your throttle hand tells you that you have 150 horsepower that has thrown its shoes. A fantastic motor ready to put out and a great prop ready to receive, but no communication.

Of course I could blow the start. Dan, Jerry or both would be hard to get around. Tim was almost perfect. One bad heat. How could third be bad? A lot of things to think about. And the water was not settling down. We could still run fast, but you have to think about holes in the turns where you could trip a sponson if you were pushing to the max. I guess thats why I quit taking pictures. Just try to settle down and sip on Bill Van's Gatorade.

epugh66

12-06-2006, 09:59 AM

Great story Wayne!
I'll not deviate from the story line too much, but I do have a few thinks to add if that OK.

The Tennessee Three's third member was W.S. "Fluke" Holland. As the drummer since 1960, he set the beat for the band. He also was a boat racer in NOA's pleasure boat division. My dad built two tunnels for him, not sure which one this was. The Mercury experts may be able to date the year by the engine. He and Marshall came by the house many times. We also were able to see many shows the band played.

I wanted to edit that last paragraph, this is boat racing FACTS after all. The photo is of Fluke, but the boat was one built by someone else than my dad. Dad built some earlier that were full nose boats. Sorry for the mis information.

Don Woods was mentioned. He and his dad had a OMC dealership in Fairmont WVA. After excepting a job with the OMC sales division, he moved to Knoxville, TN because it was central to his region. After that, he moved to Arkansas taking a job with one of OMC's boat company's.

epugh66

12-06-2006, 11:05 AM

Wayne,
I think you mentioned something about Alexandria, Marshall Grant and Carl Perkins. I think this is a pic from '71-'73 or about. My moms notes say Marshall is standing and Carl is facing us. WOW!

I think it was '76 that we hauled one of your boats to Knoxville after Alex so someone else could pic it up in early '77. Does that ring a bell?

Master Oil Racing Team

12-06-2006, 04:17 PM

I'm glad you're sharing some of stories and pics with us Eric. When I have time I'm going to look for a pic of the pointed cowling boat that later became trashed. I also found a story that Gary wrote on a trip racing in Cuba. I think it would be good if Gary would tell us about that. As far a Marshall and Fluke go, if you could find any more pics and for sure some stories, they would go great with a thread Joe Rome started about Marshall. If you haven't seen it yet you need to. Go to search and type in Marshall Grant and it should come up.

On the boat in Alexandria, I have a real strong clue, but I am not positive. I have forgotten too much, but one of the things I have been trying to recall is what ever happened to Ruthless II AKA The Loaner. It was a historic Butts Aerowing that we sold after the 1976 season. It had belonged to Tim and he loaned it to me to race and after we bought it we loaned it to him. When I get caught up on some stuff it will make an interesting thread because in my opinion, that boat was the start of the revolution. After I won the nationals with it we sold it and I never ran A again. If someone came to our house to pick it up, I would have remembered that so I'm thinking that must be the boat you guys picked up. Sure would like to know. Whoever got it, I sent all our test sheets with it. The A test sheets are the only ones I don't have in my book.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-07-2006, 08:22 AM

I made another perfect start on the inside at full speed. This time though there would be no holding back. I was going for the win, not second or third so if I broke something that's just the way it would end. I didn't care about the $2,000.00 prize money. I would give that up for a repeat world title.

All I knew that I had to beat Tim by more than 5.7 seconds, and as fast as he was that meant I had to put all my concentration on getting around the course as fast as I could. The water was only slightly rougher. We could still run wide open down the straights, but we had to really watch the turns for holes.

I didn't look around where anyone else was, I didn't look over in the pits, I just concentrated on keeping the boat on the water down the straights and blowing through the turns as hard as I could without tripping. I don't know when it happened but somewhere behind me Austrian Wilfried Weiland had a spectacular blowover as Dan M mentioned earlier. It looked so bad that Kurt Mischke stopped to check on him. UIM doesn't stop racing for accidents unless it is bad like that of David Westbrook. Wilfried was uninjured so the heat continued.

The boat and motor combo was handling good. We had the Grant Konig on the larger boat Shadowfax and it worked good on this type of course. I gained on everyone each lap, but I didn't look around to see what kind of a lead I had. I was running too close to the edge to be sightseeing. What I didn't know was that Tim never made it off the bank. The float in his bottom carb had apparently slipped at the end of the previous heat. Probably right after the finish and the pressures pushed the float up, but as he was not running full tilt, any bubbling of the motor as he came back to the pits didn't draw any attention.

As I was gaining on the field each lap, Tim stood on the shore watching his second World Championship slip away. It's one thing to lose in the heat of the battle, and it had been a great one so far. But just imagine the heartbreak of losing it in the pits without being able to put up any challenge whatsoever.

After I set up for the final turn prior to the start of the final lap, my motor blubbered momentarily. After I got back on it the motor accelerated hard through the turn and ran quick down the front straight. As I was approaching turn one on the final lap I was catching up to Dennis McClellan very quickly. I thought I could pass him before the turn, but at the last second I realized I couldn't. I had thought he would move over for a boat lapping him, but he never looked around and didn't know I was coming up quick. In order to make the turn, I had to back way off to slow quickly so that I could cross his wake far enough behind and not take any water from his rooster tail. Then I had to bend it a little more than normal to get back on a good track to make the turn. When I got back on the throttle there was no response. WHAT! Oh Man! It was all over. My heart sunk down to my wet tennies.

I came out of that turn so slow it seemed that I was walking. I was so bummed out down that back straight it felt like my sponsons were plowing permanent furrows in the water. Two days of fantastic racing, and lots of mental planning and it all came down to this. I never asked Tim how he felt when he saw me go down because it wouldn't be right. And I would have preferred one final challenge with him chasing me. But this is the way racing is. My top carb float had slipped and flooded the engine. I think the pressures had already slipped the wires from its groove, but when I had to back off too long it popped it all the way up. Had I not had to back off as long as I had, I might have been able to keep the rpm's up enough that the motor could swallow the fuel. The same thing that kept Tim off the water, got me in the end. (go back and look at the previous post on the fuel and the test sheets.)

I was surprised when it took so long for the boat behind me to catch up and pass. It was 10 to 15 seconds. And I was doubly surprised that it was Jerry Kirts rather than Tim. Another surprise when a second later Dan Kirts blew by. When Jerry passed, Tim took the points lead that I would have had, and Jerry went ahead of me with three seconds. Then in an ironic twist of fate, Dan pulled the same last turn trick on Jerry that Jerry had done to Tim and I. Dan pulled ahead for the win which put me back in second place overall and Jerry for a bronze medal. I had enough of a lead that I was still able to finish third that final heat.

Jeff Lytle

12-07-2006, 09:28 AM

I made another perfect start on the inside at full speed.

I remember seeing your article in Powerboat about this race and remember your writing "Tim's heart sank as Wayne Baldwin's red, white, and blue Aerowing hit the line and was gone".

Although this part of "An Amazing Story" is drawing to a close, I really hope there is more to come. I looked forward to the pics and stories everyday, and missed them when you didn't. Looks like we have Eric Pugh hooked on this thread now as well.

I would love to hear Tim's version on this story, perhaps one day.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-07-2006, 10:10 AM

I could have just posted my article I did for Powerboat, but it wouldn't have all the inside stories or the photos. But there is still some more pics of the boats and of the podium to come, plus some quotes from the Dayton Daily News, then on the the PRO Nationals. Then 1978. That motor was still kickin'. Glad you're enjoying it Jeff. And I am like you... glad to have Eric here posting pictures and stories.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-08-2006, 08:15 AM

The final heat took its toll. Dan won at a pace 10 seconds off the previous heat with his brother Jerrry 4 1/2 seconds behind. I was third another 18 seconds behind Jerry with Don Wood bringing up forth and Dennis McClellan fifth. Erwin Zimmerman, Tim Crimmons, Kurt Mischke, and Wilfried Weiland DNF. Kurt lost his chance at overall 5th when he stopped to check on Wilfried. Mike Dertinger never came back out after his flip in heat two. Tim Butts, Rex Hall and Steve Jones DNS.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-11-2006, 08:53 AM

Jerry Kirts had three seconds. The heat he threw out was the one he was DSQ'd in for hitting a bouy in the final turn while running third.

I have a few shots to post that missed the earlier heat racing posts. I think this series was from the second heat when he received the DSQ. The water was laid down then. I think Debbie took these.

This man knows how to fly an Aerowing. The unflappable Jerry Kirts didn't so much as flinch as he was beginning to rotate off the liquid runway. Just a little action from his left hand and a couple of fingers on the throttle and pipes got him back to the flight level he wanted.:cool:

Jeff Lytle

12-11-2006, 11:38 AM

This man knows how to fly an Aerowing. The unflappable Jerry Kirts didn't so much as flinch as he was beginning to rotate off the liquid runway. Just a little action from his left hand and a couple of fingers on the throttle and pipes got him back to the flight level he wanted.:cool:

Poetry in motion man...............poetry in motion.

Jeff Lytle

12-11-2006, 08:10 PM

Someone should grab the bull by da' horns and contact Jerry, Tom, and Dan and get them on here. I knew them to say hi at the races, but perhaps someone who raced against them alot should do the honors.

Wayne.........You in?

Kirts Specialties, Inc. 21744 Beck Drive Elkhart IN (219) 293-0974

Master Oil Racing Team

12-12-2006, 05:24 PM

I'm in Jeff!

epugh66

12-12-2006, 09:14 PM

But Danny will put the squeeeeeeze on us before the first turn and Jerry will sneak up on the outside going to the last turn, then duck underneath ;)

Master Oil Racing Team

12-13-2006, 06:22 AM

I know a man of experience when I hear one.:D

Doug Hall Y51

12-13-2006, 04:58 PM

Hey Wayne, I dont even know if Danny has the Internet at home. He spends so much time at the shop and when he is off from work he is either shooting his bow or hunting. I have had the privilage to not only race against him but to get to know him well through dad. They keep in contact regularly and when we go to Constantine we stay at he and Nancys house. It would be great to hear some stories from him though. I need to get dad to post some stories too. I know he reads these but I am sure he would have alot of stories to tell.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-13-2006, 06:17 PM

......let's here some stories.:cool: Sometimes it takes someone else to get it from the person to the print,..........so if they don't.......will you? We want to hear the stories. Now....Doug......Check out the DePue Reunion thread.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-14-2006, 08:45 AM

Okay Jeff. Not exactly what you want in his own words, but this is the best I could get out of Tim yesterday regarding the race at Dayton. Every time I mentioned another name we would get off on a tangent and I would have to lead him back to the subject. I told him there was a big response to the segment on Dayton. It was such a unique event, I told him I had spent a lot of time on it and he asked if the BRF members "were interested in just the racing....or what happened in the pits too?" I told him......"All aspects."

So hear is what he said about the things he remembered.

I didn't know where he was during heat one that was stopped because of David Westbrook's accident. He was on the outside. There were five boats to his left. That jives with what I remember. There was a pack together in the turn, and I was just behind them when David flipped. David might have jumped the gun along with some others. But all the front pack was in the bottom turn when he lost it. Tim accelerated hard out of the turn and was obviously in position to win. When he returned to the pits, two of his pit men, Lee and Steve Hertz, were jumping up and down. One of them said "You're the fastest". They were very excited.

Tim didn't say much about the restart of heat one in which he won. I reminded him that I got the start, but he was able to get around me for the win. He did say the rotary valve was working perfect and he didn't even have to work the pipes that much. (this is a trade secret that Ray Hardy invented and we were both running.--sorry, can't divuldge) You can make some guesses though eagle eye, if you do a little research on some previous posts.;)

Heat two was the famous one. He remembered the half page spread with the photo of us in the newspaper. He was wishing he could get his hands on a copy of that photo. As do I. He also told me that Dan and Jerry Kirts both filed a protest agains Tim for violation of the overlap rule. They weren't successful and he didn't say where he thought it happened, but as we both had enough of a lead, I think it must have been the first turn at the start. When Tim got by me in heat two, it was clean. Whether it was close or not with Jerry and Dan, the turn judge did not see it as a violation.

Heat three was when his thrust bracket came loose. The water was rough by then. We both made a good start and getting to and through the first turn was fine. But when he got on the throttle to accelerate down the back straight, the boat did a little jerk. He knew something was up, but not exactly what, so he was careful when he set up for the next turn. Tim was still able to run at high speed and with the prop thrust, the bracket was firmly up against the transom. It was when he backed off, that it pulled away and then the tail was squirrely. It wasn't as bad at first, but right toward the end it was a handful in the turns and Jerry Kirts was able to make up enough ground (??water;) ??) to get around Tim for a second. Tim did finish third.

Of course it was the final heat in which Tim's carb flooded over and he didn't start. He didn't wait until the last minute. They had started cranking the motor, but it wouldn't start. The small batteries were not geared toward starting a motor with the flooding problem, and they didn't have enough time to do anything about it. He said to himself "Oh s&#t!" I tried to get him to tell me how he felt as I was surely headed toward the win as it appeared. But he got on to another subject, so I didn't ask how he felt when my motor dropped rpm's. I really don't have to ask to know, because anyone that has been in that situation knows. It is a feeling of relief, but also feeling a little down at the same time.

Tim's Airmarine V8 belonged to Joe Michelini, and for some reason Joe got mad at Tim for not doing what he wanted him to do. I really don't know what it was, or what Tim could have done better. But at the next race, the 1977 Pro Nationals at Hinton, Tim refused to run the 6 cylinder Yamato F that Joe had put together. Dan Kirts ended up registered to race it and Joe took the V8 away from Tim, never to be run again. Two races. It only ran in the Eastern Divisionals a few weeks earlier and the OD World Championships. A perfect record and as far as Tim knows it is gathering dust in Joe Michelini's warehouse with countless other motors and boats dating back to the fifties (or maybe even late 40's)

This final note he never had told me before. As we were standing on the podium and he was reflecting over all that had gone on over the past few days, he looked out over the race course we were facing. He recalled the speeds and the battles and thought to himself, "I'll NEVER do this again".

Composite Specialties

12-14-2006, 09:23 AM

So, was that Tim's last race? I am always intrigued as to what and when drivers decide to just do something else.

Also, was Mal Harden in that race?

Master Oil Racing Team

12-14-2006, 10:38 AM

No Marc. That was just a passing thought Tim had at the moment. At that time the only ride he had was the 700 hydro and he had just made the transition. Even though he drove mine a couple of times in 1975, he wasn't fully committed yet. The reason for getting into it was because we started promoting international racing. After Jerry Waldman died and Marshall Grant got out of racing, our push to make Pro racing live up to its name and go more professional went from domestic to international. My Dad had formed Hydroplanes International as an APBA member club with that in mind. It was my Dad, myself, Joe, Tim and Steve Jones that worked hard on getting international races over here and encouraged Americans to race overseas.

We submitted applications every year for OA through OE World Championships and we got OD in 73, 76, 77 and 80. OA through OC plus OE were much more popular and sought after in the rest of the racing world so we didn't get the award for those classes as often, and that's why Tim ended up in OD. He didn't race in Hinton because Joe Michelini took the boat away and Tim didn't build another one quick enough. Tim continued to race quite awhile after I got out. I don't remember offhand, but I think Tim's last year was probably around 86 or 87.

All entrants for this world championship were listed in a previous post. Mal didn't race here, but he did compete in the 1978 UIM World Championships which were held in Dayton for classes OB,OC, and OE.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-14-2006, 05:39 PM

Headlines in the newspaper were BUTTS REPELS BALDWIN BID and BALDWIN CAN'T CATCH HAPLESS BUTTS. In a interview following the race Tim's quote that appeared the following day was " 'Wayne is my best friend and I was disappointed for him', he said afterwards, 'but I wanted to win too'".

And after all we went through I have to say that Tim was the one that deserved to win. He was an A B driver for all his career. He took up the challenge to race in OD because that was the class we had to promote in 1977. I ran all classes, but Tim didn't so he had to make a transition to the class we ran that year.

Joe and I were talking about the 100 mph transition today. I think Ron and others who have experienced it will agree. Water turns to sticky concrete somewhere around 90. But there is a definite transition in the way a boat handles with the combination of air and water pressures around 100mph. Tim just focused on his mission and went into it full bore. I wanted that win as much as anything I ever did, and the final half lap will haunt me until I forget how to remember. But the man of the hour, the man of the 1977 OD World Championships was Tim Butts. And that is another part of this story that is amazing. What Tim accomplished is as great as any boat racing legend did in his time, and he will also cherish those memories to the end.

epugh66

12-14-2006, 10:08 PM

Tim and the Pugh's were all in Nottingham England for the 1984 OB/350cc world championships, then again in Boretto Italy for the 1985 event. I'll sneak some pics in the pits thread sometime.

Guy

12-18-2006, 11:32 PM

RichardKCMo

12-19-2006, 01:16 AM

Whats just as amazing is that Marcel can also fly his collection of aircraft (with one eye) just as good as Chuck Yeager!

He's taken me up in his Beachcraft (which I understand isn't the easiest aircraft to fly OR land) a number of times.
The first time I was a little nervous & apprehensive, due to his depth perception problem (which obviously comes from having only one functioning eye). But after that first time, I was quite comfortable flying with him all the other times.

The guy really IS quite talented in just about everything he endeavors to do...

Guy Conklin

Hey Guy , don't you know sometimes you have to close one eye to see right?

the reason i remember him is for the way his boats were made, propshaft extended beyond the rear of the boat.

OH! i forgot this was nearly 40 yrs past, say what's this about they said. oh well.
RichardKCMo

Master Oil Racing Team

12-30-2006, 07:11 PM

I was sick as a three-manged dog in a leaky turpentine factory...catnip scented! Didn't even know who "we" entertained Christmas Day until a couple of days ago. It was very dark in the dungeon.;)

So I decided I wanted to finish the OD World Championships before year end, but I been messin with this stupid scanner for several hours. It seems it forgot how to balance white light. It had started a couple of weeks or so ago and I had to color balance some stuff, but the B&W is a different matter. I have to figure out how to get into other areas to correct it, or if I can't then......:eek:

So here are a few at the podium. Debbie didn't take a pic of Tim receiving the Gold for some reason. She also took color, so maybe she missed it. I will try to correct the scanner problems and have a list of the names for those postings.

Roy Hodges

12-31-2006, 12:54 AM

Whats just as amazing is that Marcel can also fly his collection of aircraft (with one eye) just as good as Chuck Yeager!

He's taken me up in his Beachcraft (which I understand isn't the easiest aircraft to fly OR land) a number of times.
The first time I was a little nervous & apprehensive, due to his depth perception problem (which obviously comes from having only one functioning eye). But after that first time, I was quite comfortable flying with him all the other times.

The guy really IS quite talented in just about everything he endeavors to do...

Guy Conklin....................................I for one, don't knock a person who has but one eye. My dad had only one . He blew out his right vision ,entirely at age of four, when he set off a CASE of dynamite caps , almost died , blew half the house away , including kitchen , where an older brother stupidly was storing the caps, and a case of dynamite , which somehow didn't go off . Or I would not be here. He was an ACE backhoe operator, and heavy truck driver . with just one eye.

Master Oil Racing Team

12-31-2006, 10:09 AM

I have always had great respect for those with one eye. It's remarkable how they can compensate for depth perception. My daughter has one eye that doesn't really see much. She wore a patch for a long time. I was always worried about her driving, but she does pretty well.

We used to have a welder with a glass eye. When someone was around that didn't know him, he would find something in a tight spot or low to the ground that needed welding and say "Well, let's take a look at it". Then he would pop his eye out and run it along the area to be welded.:D

oldalkydriver

12-31-2006, 11:29 PM

Out here inSouthern California, there was a 'one eyed driver', and he drove side by side 1100cc runabouts. Dominated for over 10 years! Probably closer to 15 years! George May whom drove John Torprahanian's 'Yamarudes'. If yu were ahead of him in a corner, it must have been a scary site to see a black patch and one eye going by you.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-01-2007, 07:10 PM

Richard---seems like you like some good music from those days as well.

Hey Dave--here is the photo I promised. To the far right in red is Don Wood facing us.

In the other photo L-R is Tim Crimmons, Jimmy Nichols, Kurt Mischke, Dan Kirts, Myself, Tim Butts, Jerry Kirts, Don Wood and behind the crowd are the others on the right-Erwin Zimmerman, Weilfried Weiland, Rick Dertinger, Dennis McClellan, Rex Hall.

Payout was 2,000 for first, 1,000 for second, 500 for third, 150 fourth and 50 for fifth place. In addition, the racers coming from Europe got at least 1,000 for appearance money. It may have been 1200 or 1500. I can't remember. In any case it was a very successful event, and all teams had professional appearing uniforms and clean, nice rigs and pit crews. That was the type of event Hydroplanes International was about, and even the Unlimited guys were impressed with the show.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-04-2007, 10:56 AM

We got back from Dayton and got everything fixed and ready to go for the Nationals. We were looking forward to that. The Stocks had run their Nationals there I think the previous year, and we had heard lots of good things about Hinton. Also, it would be the furthest north and east that we had ever raced.

Our friend that we stay with when we go to Berlin came to Texas with her friend. Jenny Schwartz-Nitka was a Russian from the Ukraine who migrated to Berlin in 1945 looking for her brother--the only one left in her family. She stayed and became a very successful business woman. Her friend Harry Splettstosser was the president of the Berlin Chapter of ADAC. It is kind of like APBA, SCCA and AMA rolled into one organization. I met both of them the previous year when Harry had the American Team (David Westbrook and myself) staying in Jenny's 4 story house in Berlin.

They came to Texas shortly before Hinton and we did the South Texas tour, including a day in Nuevo Laredo and a fishing trip on Debbie's Dad's boat. Then they rode with us to Hinton.

Disco was in full swing and the radio was full of Andy Gibb, Barry Manilow and for the 437th time in one day---Peter Frampton.........AAAAAAAAAARRG! At least every now and then we would catch a Fleetwood Mac song, and Jimmy Buffet had his shrimp boiling and Margaritas in the blender. On the country side, Waylon Jennings was half way through a six week run of "Lukenback, Texas" at number one. That would be the last time a C&W hit stayed No. 1 that long for 20 years. And some European band had a hit that Jenny and Harry liked because of a drink concocted from the Bahamas where they were before coming to Texas---It was Yellowbird.

We were only a few hours west of Hinton in the afternoon when the DJ said Elvis had died. Quite a shock.

We stopped for gas in West Virginia and I saw Harry walk straight into the women's restroom. He was alread entering, so it was too late for me to stop him. The men's was on the far side with a sign that said HIS'N. The women's closest to the pumps said HER'N. In Germany women's restroom are DAMMEN and men's HERREN. I don't know why Harry thought of all the restrooms in the U.S. we would find one in the hills of West Virginia that was properly labeled, but he was clearly confused when he came out. :confused: His eyes were bugged out and was slack jawed with wonderment splashed across his face. He looked around in embarassment and I was just looking sideways at him. I never said anything and let him think nobody saw, but he headed straight back to the car and got in. There was no way he was going to see what was behind that HIS'N door. He would just wait.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-04-2007, 08:17 PM

We stayed at Pipestem a State Park Resort. It was very beautiful. The lobby was at the top of a mountain, and if I remember correctly a restaurant connected to it with other rooms. It seems as all that was separate from the main lodging facility, but maybe I don't remember because we didn't stay there. We parked in a large lot next to the lobby, but our rooms were at the bottom of that mountain. Maybe not all the way to the bottom, but our rooms were setting about 20 feet above a beautiful stream. The only way, besides climbing, to and from our rooms were by a tram. According to the ad on the bottom right of the program it was 3600'. I didn't remember it being quite that long, but it was a nice and interesting ride to the top. There were only 15 to 20 rooms at the bottom and I think we had 4 or 5 with our group. Debbie and I were still on our honeymoon;) There was a lit up view of a real "still" that was busted when the lodge was being built. The moonshiners split and left their still and the lodge made a museum attraction out of it. It was halfway down the tram ride inset into an overhang in the mountain.

Bill Van Steenwyk

01-04-2007, 10:04 PM

HI Wayne:

Have really been enjoying your memories about the Dayton world championships as that race and that time frame bring back a lot of memories for both Eileen and I. She mentioned the other day that everybody talks about what a great time we all had, the only problem is we can't remember a lot of it, and not because of age. I was thinking just the other nite about the new years eve parties at Bar Bon and stringing the firecrackers all around your brothers house. Almost made it all the way around the last time if I remember right. Anyway, about Ray's "gadget": I will have to take credit for the original idea or at least the concept as one of the many conversations I had with Harry ZAK in that time frame had to do with the shortcomings of his Konig pipes, i.e. they were fixed and did not slide, making a decision neccessary as to whether or not to make them longer or shorter depending on course length. This was done with cast spacers about 1 1/2 to 2 inches long that were placed between the manifold and the exaust ports, but as I stated, once you decided the length you wanted to run, you were stuck with it. He did fool around with sliding stingers some, but they were never as good as sliding the whole pipe. Shortly thereafter Dieter changed the exaust port spacing on the motors and basically obsoleted Harry's pipes of that design, requiring a new design that he just didn't want to go to the trouble of making new casting patterns again for. By this time he was very busy with cranks, heads, motor building so based on his dissapointment with the ease of obsoleting his other pipes that had been done, he just decided to not mess with them anymore. He always felt that the two cylinders that fired together should go into the same chamber though, and that is why he built them differently to start with. This design was inherently very difficult to make slide so he decided not to put any more time into it.

I had been reading some articles in some motorcycle magazines pertaining to rotary valve two strokes used in road racing bikes and had an idea to do something with the rotary valve that would accomplish the same thing as sliding the pipes, and that would allow some performance increase and still allow people using Harry's pipes to benefit. I discussed it with him, I was still living in KC at the time, so it must have been late 60's or prior to 71, and he agreed it should work but he just didn't have time to work on it, so he suggested I get hold of Ray and discuss it with him and see if he could do anything with the idea. As you have stated previously, Ray had a natural talent of being able to not only figure out how to make something work, but give him a couple of days and he would build a prototype. Long story short, he built it, sent it to me, I tried it on my C Konig and it worked great, with only one shortcoming. Because of bearing material problems there would sometimes be a jamming or binding and the "gadget" would cease to work, and if it was not in optimum adjustment when this happened, it was like you could't slide pipes anymore, and since you couldn't slide Harry's pipes anyway, you were in deep do-do. He worked on that problem for several years and never really solved it, I believe because some of the more modern materials that are now availiable just didn't exist then. What was really funny was one day after he and he first wife split up and he moved down and went to work with your Dad at Alice Speciality, he called me and said he hoped I wasn't going to be mad but he had told your Dad about the "gadget" and made him one. I of course told him I didn't care because of all the nice things Baldy had done for me. What I don't think he ever knew was I had told your Dad myself about it several months before, and he was trying to figure out how to ask Ray to make him one or several without spilling the beans, because Ray had made me promise I would't tell anybody else, and your Dad knew that.

As we all get older we sometimes wish we had done things differently at various times in our life, and I fit in that category with many others, BUT I would not trade the times we all had around the table in your dad's kitchen and all the other times I spent with he and Ray both. They were some of the best times of my life and I wish I could go back and do them over again. Even Rio Grande City....... and I thought I would never say that.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-05-2007, 08:20 AM

Hey folks...Bill Van was the original Mr. NAFTA. He had an idea of mass producing good hydros very cheaply in Mexico across the river from Rio Grande City. The idea was an inexpensive way for beginners to get into pro racing with a hydro and Yamato. It was all coming together when Bill Van figured out the drug smugglers thought a hydro might be a good way to move some goods. Bill Van never cleared a fence quicker than that. We also had a project going down there at that time with Ray Hardy and it cost us a bundle. Between politics and drug smugglers, the border area is a very bad place for outsiders to do business.:mad: I don't know how much Bill Van lost, but with us it was around 600K and 4 years wasted.

Bill, I didn't realize that the idea came from you, but the fact that it was thought out because the ZAK pipes wouldn't slide makes sense. As far as I know then, only you, ZAK, Ray, Tim, Jack Chance, me and my Dad ever messed with one. The first three generations were very erratic like you said. I don't know if you ran a fourth generation. Ray did a major design change and it eliminated so many of the variables that could cause it to malfunction. Then it was just a matter of getting the balance right and which rotary valve to use.

And you're right about my Dad's kitchen. That was the focal point of his home. He didn't have any plans when he built it. He stood on top of the caliche hill overlooking the race course and figured out where he wanted the kitchen. Then he took a stick and drew the rest of the house around it for the builder to see where to put the stakes. The two main bedrooms entered directly into the kitchen as well as the living room and bar areas. When Hurricane Celia blew the house down, the contractor was able to put everything back together except the roof. Because there were no plans, they could not figure out how the builders did the original roofline. The way they figured it out was I blew up some aerials I had taken of the original house.

There have been so many racers at our house I once thought of putting together a list, but I don't know if I could remember all of them. They were from Australia to Germany and Canada, Seattle to Lakeland, Bakersfield to Ohio and all points in between. I cherish the times you, Eileen and others spent with us. If I could remember the recipes, I would start a thread on Baldy's House with some pics and stories. There are many, many members here on BRF that my Dad entertained there.

ProHydroRacer

01-05-2007, 10:30 AM

"Bill, I didn't realize that the idea came from you, but the fact that it was thought out because the ZAK pipes wouldn't slide makes sense. As far as I know then, only you, ZAK, Ray, Tim, Jack Chance, me and my Dad ever messed with one. The first three generations were very erratic like you said. I don't know if you ran a fourth generation. Ray did a major design change and it eliminated so many of the variables that could cause it to malfunction. Then it was just a matter of getting the balance right and which rotary valve to use."

Count me in, I had one of those super dupper do-fram-us too! My first one that Ray made for me and I ran for a year or so actually was sent to ZAK (because he didn't have time to make another one)to send to your Dad for an upcoming important race. It took Zak 6 months to make me a replacement then he charged me for it. Go figure.

Bill
ProHydroRacer

Master Oil Racing Team

01-05-2007, 12:17 PM

ProHydroRacer

01-07-2007, 07:43 AM

Wow, Bill! I thought we really held that one close to our vest. I bet maybe Bob Rhoades might have had one too. Although, the guys mentioned are all mostly midwest with close friendship with Ray. Do you remember what year you were talking about when you sent yours to Harry?
Ray, made mine before his disparture from the Mid-west. I quess I had the "do-fram-us" for another year. Ray was in Texas by then. I got a call from ZAK one very late night asking that I ship him my "do-fram-us". It was before a worlds or national event don't remember.

Rhoades MAY have had one too. Harry had said Rhoades and my engine where the same (but what I didn't know at the time, that Rhoades was also running nitrous oxide as well as a few other of our highly reguared racers) Of course Rhoades engine developed way more acceration than mine.

One team had the nitrous tank inside the fuel tank and they had to change the tank every heat.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-07-2007, 03:11 PM

I didn't know Bob ran nitrous. He DID have good acceleration coming off the corners. I didn't know about the others either. AND I didn't know we got one of your Do Fram usis. Sounds kind of Chicken you know what. I hope it didn't mess you up Bill. Looking back at my test book, I am kind of remembering some stuff.

After Ray sold his hard chrome plant in Chicago and got a divorce, he came down to Texas to help us put our business plan together for a hazardous waste disposal facility, then manage it. He worked days at our machine shop at Alice Specialty and spent many nights past midnight at my Dad's working on the plan. That machine shop is where he built and improved the Do Fram Us.

According to my test sheet, our original was built by Larry Haufler, a machinist in Corpus Christi, and pit man of Steve Jones. So Steve had one version or another himself. That first one of ours apparently didn't work very well and we got one from Harry. According to the book, that one had tolerances that were too close and swelled too much when tightened down. Our first test with it was on a B Konig in December 1974. As I was out of the cockpit most of 1975, we didn't do much with it. Ray came to Texas in 1974 or at least early in 75 I think. Our third unit, and a redo of Harry's original was a pull type, rather than push. It was erratic and would work only one lap then stick at the top end position. By the end of December 1975, I was back in a boat and Tim was down testing with us. Our CAV no IV was back to the original ZAK push design, but with more clearance. Bill, I'm thinking that this is the one you sent . We were getting ready for the UIM OA,OD and OE World Championships coming up in February. I think Harry hustled you to get it to him because he and Ray Hardy were both probably there for the testing also. And if Harry and Ray were there, that means Bill Van was too. Since Eileen was a stewardess, Bill Van could fly anywhere he wanted. He would pop in for a popsickle in July.;)

Ray made a better Do Fram Us later that was a completely different design, and it took the erratic behavior away. I still have the complete setup we ran on D41994. Of everything we sold to Harry Bartolomei, that was one of the things we kept. I also have one of the ones like you sent us, as well as a ZAK carb spacer. I was going to post some pictures of that stuff earlier in the year, but Joe said No. That was a secret and we decided to keep Rays invention to ourselves. Well at least a half dozen guys have kept it too I guess. We never showed it to Dieter either. As you know, you can't see it unless part of the motor is disassembled.

Bill Van Steenwyk

01-08-2007, 09:49 PM

Billy and Wayne:

I don't remember the year exactly (all the excitement at the time I guess) but there was a lot of experimentation between Harry ZAK and I with Nitrous. Wayne, I'm suurprised you don't remember that as your Dad and I had a few conversations regarding the pro's and cons of it's use. I had read some articles about the use of it in the ME-109 fighter plane in WWII and then the Nascar guys fooled around with it in the 60's I believe, so Harry and I discussed it and decided to try to come up with a workable system for a Konig.

As you may know, it does absolutely no good to put Nitrous in an engine without adding extra fuel, as the purpose of the Nitrous is to add Oxygen to the mix and without extra fuel all you accomplish is leaning out the fuel/air mixture and sticking and burning pistons, which as you know is easy enough in a two stroke anyway without any extra help. So in addition to figuring out a way to add the nitrous and extra fuel, IN THE CORRECT AMOUNT, it worked out to be a project. Harry made an adaptor that fit between the carbs and the rotary valve housing with fittings so as to have a way to connect the nitrous bottle and another fuel line, and to meter the fuel we just simply used some bing carb jets and put them in the fuel line at the entry port. Crude but it worked and the simpler the better trying to prove the concept and get it worked out. We first used a normal metal bottle of the same type and size that a scuba diver would have normally used, again just to try and prove the concept, as hiding the system was not a priority in the testing stage. We got some technical help from the nitrous system supplier we bought the gas and valves from, but basically we were on our own and in uncharted territory as we never heard of anyone else trying it on a two stroke, or at least that they would admit, and in fact the supplier tried to discourage us as he said it looked to him as there would be many problems with both a two stroke and a boat. We didn't know what he was getting at until we tried the system and then it became pretty obvious, as if you propped the engine for regular methonal fuel mix, it put out the amout of power it always did. Hit the nitrous button and all of a sudden, lots of punch but you ran out of prop very quickly and I mean quickly. We calculated about a 40% power increase with the amout of nitrous/extra fuel mix we were adding to the engine, and especially in the days of two blade props, it was very easy to blow out or spin the prop and not go anywhere with the extra power availiable. If you tried to run a larger prop on the regular fuel mix (without nitrous) you couldn't pull the prop without the nitrous on all the time, and you could neither run the engine that long without damage, or carry enough nitrous to run it continously if that were possible without either burning pistons or destroying the crank. As to whether Rhoades ran it, I never knew that he did, and we were pretty close at that time, with me running one of he and Jim Daniels boats and Harry doing all the engine work for both of us. That doesn't mean he didn't, just that I was not aware of it. I know Harry was never that enthused about it and if you knew Harry, if he worked on your engines, he was VERY dissaproving if you didn't treat them properly, at least as far as he was concerned. I suppose Rhoades could "confirm or deny" as they say. We simply decided it was more trouble than it was worth and dropped the project.

Not long after Baldy promoted the race at Dayton that has been discussed previously on this site, namely the OE I believe it was (memory again) anyway where OMC showed up with some tunnel boats to compete against the Konigs on hydro's. Because of my familiarity with the nitrous system and how it would look if it were being used, Baldy asked me to be the "fuel inspector" for that race. He even bought me a bright red T shirt with that on the front and back. Because of all the controversy Wayne has previously discussed about that race and hydro's against tunnel boats and other issues at the time, I also was required to take a fuel sample from all the participants, giving special attention to the tunnel boat entries. I did this, and gave the samples to Baldy, but as Wayne has previously mentioned, something happened to them after that, but as they say, that too is another story.

A little postscript to this experience and the things Harry and I learned about trying to use Nitrous:

Within a year or so after our experience testing with it, as you all may recall this was the time of the "factory wars" between Mercury and OMC in the OZ class. One of the St. Louis races at that time was sanctioned as a UIM world championship and because I knew Billy Seebold pretty well, I would always go to his shop when the big boys came to town, and take a look at all the equipment. When I pulled up at the boat shop there was a guard type fellow at the door, only letting in "approved" people as there was some real secret stuff going on inside, not for anyones eyes except factory personnel. I remember Billy apologizing for my not being allowed inside, but it was "factory orders" I later found out that they were trying to get nitrous working on the engines but were having a lot of burning and sticking problems. Someone, I forget now who,later said they weren't putting any extra fuel in the engines with the nitrous, and if that was the real scoop and the cause for the problems, they ran off someone who could have put them on the right track. Oh well, I always had trouble spelling engineer, much less talking to one.

Within a couple of years after this, the PRO Commission banned the use of "any fuel that does not exist as a liquid at normal atmospheric pressure."
I have always liked the PRO division better than any other because of the run what you brung, bore and stroke philosophy, but based on all the trouble and expense trying to run nitrous would have cost the PRO membership, I felt they made the right decision.

Mark75H

01-09-2007, 05:36 AM

So it ain't really run what you brung?
RichardKCMo Correct, no nitrous oxide, no nitromethane and no superchargers. "Fuels that exist as a gas" at room temperature are excluded as well ... no propane either.

Is it time to take off the no supercharger rule and allow them on 4 strokes instead of the 1.5 motor size handicap? Maybe a .9 motor size factor for supercharged 4 strokes to encourage people to start experimenting. To my knowledge the 1.5 factor hasn't brought them in yet.

The no supercharger rule came to be in the time when superchargers were very expensive and there wasn't that much public domain information about using them. Much has changed since then.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-09-2007, 07:22 AM

Bill Van--I don't remember the nitrous tests at all. It was probably when Debbie and I were living in Denton, and Jack Chance was getting into retiring from racing mode. My Dad would normally dive in head first about something with that kind of potential, but maybe this time he thought twice. What I do remember is the conflict with the fuel and nitrous oxide with OMC. I have a ton of correspondence between us, Dieter, Gary Garbrecht, and many foreign racing organizations. They pulled a slick one and we lost. Money and power. I did later have a real good talk with Jose Mawet at one of the conventions and we began to work together to keep that from happening again and to increase UIM participation of U.S. drivers. Unfortunately, I quit at the time we were getting that off the ground.

Sam--My Dad had invented and patented a device that would increase positive air pressure without any moving parts. We used them on our trucks as a safety device to work in refineries and sold a few across the U.S. and Canada. Because of Harry Pasurczak's connections, we were able to get a set of 250 cast aluminum housings instead of building them out of sheet metal as in the old days. It was just a favor for someone to cast only 250 sets. Harry made the mold out of wood and it was a beautiful piece of work.

We thought about modifying it to fit our Konigs. It would have to be reduced about 4 times, but the principal would still work. Basically for every 250 cubic feet of air that went into it, the device would expell 3000 cubic feet. And not one moving part. Only some hoses and check valves. Our plan was to put it behind the carbs so we wouldn't have to worry about metering. Sometimes I wish we would have built one to see what it would do.

As far as allowing superchargers or turbochargers, I would never rule out looking into it. I always liked the Pro division because of the things you were allowed to try. But, it saddens me to think of what's happened to the 500, 700, and 1100 classes. I wouldn't want any supercharging effect to lead to speeds so fast that we would also lose 350. In fact, with the speeds the way they are, I would rather have shorter courses and more turns than throw in restrictions. Lot's of turns are better anyway:D

ProHydroRacer

01-09-2007, 10:45 AM

Ray made a better Do Fram Us later that was a completely different design, and it took the erratic behavior away. I still have the complete setup we ran on D41994. Of everything we sold to Harry Bartolomei, that was one of the things we kept. I also have one of the ones like you sent us, as well as a ZAK carb spacer. I was going to post some pictures of that stuff earlier in the year, but Joe said No. That was a secret and we decided to keep Rays invention to ourselves. Well at least a half dozen guys have kept it too I guess. We never showed it to Dieter either. As you know, you can't see it unless part of the motor is disassembled.

The best part of the Do-Fram-Us was that racers thought I had something special and looked and looked at my engine and could never find it. Poor Larry must have spent hours looking at that 500 and never spoted it. It still a secret all these years later. Ray wanted that way.

Bill
ProHydroracer

Master Oil Racing Team

01-09-2007, 02:07 PM

That's right Bill. I even kind of hesitated to mention it, but unless you or I or someone else puts up a photo or drawing, the secret is still good. Funny thing is, you could look right past it. But, you're right about Ray wanting it that way and that's why we all kept it quiet. RIP Ray--the secret remains;)

Sadly, Ray had some other inventions that would have been money makers because it was something the mass population could have used and some unscrupulous company lawyers cheated and stole his ideas.:mad:

Mark75H

01-09-2007, 02:31 PM

I have a picture that shows part of it, if you know what to look for ;)

I had thought of trying the concept on my McCulloch rotary valve set up, but never went beyond the idea and some sketches ... that is why I knew what I was looking at when I saw the picture, but I have no idea where the picture is now or what it is called

Master Oil Racing Team

01-09-2007, 04:30 PM

If you ever find the picture, E mail me a copy. I can receive, but not send except by routing through Debbie's E mail. It would be interesting to see which version you saw.

I just got a pm from a racer that came across one he got in old parts from another old racer I knew. It was welded to where it wouldn't work anymore. Was probably one of the earlier versions that was erratic. After reading about it on this thread he went to his old parts stash to look at it. He reverse engineered it mostly, but not completely. But we still got our secret going (if I can get his address).

I don't know how Bill and Bill Van had theirs set up, but there were various rotary valve cuts and timing combinations you could use. And we didn't always run one at every race. Depended on the course. The D Konigs were plenty fast anyway if you had the rotary valve timing set right. We generally set ours for intermediate acceleration. After you come off the corner and while bringing pipes back up, the device could help you get back to top speed quicker. I don't ever recall being able to go faster with one. Just get to FAST quickly. Maybe some of the others had different set ups.

Mark75H

01-09-2007, 08:05 PM

I think that is most of what it would do ... it might also let top end timing that was hard to fire off, start and leave the pits with less stalling

Tim Chance

01-09-2007, 09:15 PM

Master Oil Racing Team

01-10-2007, 07:32 PM

....every now and then I think about what if the secret got out and Dieter got one. I loved Dieter and we worked together a lot. He always did a lot of talking with Jack Chance and we never held anything back. ;) except this. Many of the U.S drivers made modifications on the standard Konig and every trip over here Dieter checked every thing out as much as he could. Including what was going on with Yamato and Merc Quincy's. As Dieter knew, good ideas could pop up anywhere. That's one reason why we never strayed from Pro. We could play around with whatever we wanted.

If Dieter got one of the Do-Fram-Us as Bill calls it, I can envision some different engine guts to widen the power spectrum. Could be RPM's, different torque events, I don't know? But I do think Dieter would have had a wonderful time playing around with it, and I'll bet there may have been some different 2 cycle scenarios today.

David Weaver

01-11-2007, 06:37 AM

For the few that know this secret, why keep it a secret? What purpose does it serve to suppress what is apparently a novel approach? There are probably a hundred or more 350 Konigs that could need a little "something-something" to compete with the VRP's and Rossi's today. Could this device help them and bring these good engines back into competition? For that matter, the 500 Konigs could use the boost as well.

As mentioned above and else where the PRO division's longevity is based on creativity and ingunuity. It also based on a willingness across the boars to help fellow racers to succeed.

Just consider this.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-11-2007, 08:10 AM

I don't know what a Rossi or VRP look like or how they are configured. Do they have internal or external rotary valves or are they ported with carbs on each cylinder? In other words what have they done differently to be superior to the old Konigs? As I mentioned a little earlier, they will not increase your top speed, with the exception of if you were to try some trick kilo stuff and set up props and timing , etc. to reach toward the top end of the scale. I guess you could increase your top speed over what your current set up is by using a prop that would have been too big otherwise, but most finish lines are near or just a little beyond half way down the front straight. So to win in most cases you have to be ahead the first half the course, not the last half. The bottom line is that if the Rossi and VRP are so dominant, then the device may help if you're running a 1 mile 5 lap course. Otherwise, I don't know. I just don't know how far off the Konigs are currently. And as you know, anything mechanical is subject to failure, so there is one more part to keep up with. I will say though that the last generation was a lot more forgiving and consistent.

As you know, Dieter constantly played around with things. There's no telling what he tried and discarded that no one has ever seen. But, he was always able to get more and more out of a given displacement. After his death there was apparently no one else in the organization that could envision the internals of a two cycle racing engine the way he could. I would love for Peter to translate some of the historical findings in his book that he kept.

Part of me wants to turn this out to the public just for historical reasons if not for any other, and the other part of me wants to leave it be. When I mentioned it earlier, I had no idea the interest it would generate. It came about after I talked to Tim about a month ago and he was remembering how well it was working for him at Springfield and Dayton. Since it was a part of the history, I brought it to light and found out how many others had known about it. It has been an interesting sideline to this thread. And it was amusing to find one BRF member that doesn't even have a Konig run down to his basement and figure out what that thing actually was that he got in a motor deal. We may have sold a motor or two that got away with one also, but I still have the one that came off Marshall's D.

So, who knows David---we'll certainly consider your request.

David Weaver

01-11-2007, 08:38 AM

Certainly the Rossi's and VRP's have pushed up top-end for 250's and 350's. But it is the acceleration of these engines that has really out-dated the 350 Konigs. The two and three cylinder engines pack a ton of punch. These engines are not rotary-valved configuratons. They are a joy to drive!!

Master Oil Racing Team

01-11-2007, 09:13 AM

Does the 350 come in both two and three cylinder packages, or is the 2 cylinder only 250. When I first started racing the Konig 350 was 2 cylinder and it had an internal rotary valve. It had good acceleration and it could pop you if you weren't ready when you cranked it. It was a great and durable motor, but could shake some. Not as bad as the 2 cylinder 500 though. The 4 cylinder Konig with the rotary valve that hit over here in 1968 really caused a buzz with that smooth, high rpm feel. With the external rotary valve, it had so much power that it made the two cylinder Konigs obsolete overnight. The Merc Quincy's were the dominant 350 at that time.

The Do-Fram-Us deal, doesn't add punch out of a turn. It would be more like a turbocharger on the intermediate acceleration rather than like a supercharger that is alway pumping air. In fact, what we found on our 350 was that there was a very slight lag time when you come off the turn. The 700 had such brute power the lag time really wasn't very apparent. On the 350 when you feel it coming on, it would just come on quicker and quicker until you reach the top end timing. By then the pipes would be up.

The last 350 Konig we had was by far the most powerful we ever had, but we only ran it during the 1978 season and sold boat, motor, props and all to Neil Bauknight. That rig was almost impossible to drive until Guiseppe Landini put a 3 blade Rolla on it and then it was a fantastic racing machine. I sometimes wish we would have stayed in 350 for another couple of years. I don't know though at what point after that the Konigs quit progressing.

But these devices aren't necessarily a magic fix all. In spite of all you could do, there is always something that can happen in a race, and one little goof will negate all the positive. We still had a number of competitors that I don't think ran them, that won lots of races. When Dan Kirts comes blowing through a hole in turn one with sponsons dancing like crazy and a death grip on the throttle, the transom skating, then remarkably catches the lip of a hole just right, then blasts through the roostertails to get clean water, there's not much anybody can bolt on to overcome that.:eek:

David Mason

01-11-2007, 10:57 AM

Balls and skill can add a few MPH's to any rig, especially in the E.T. department. Dan Kirts was certainly one of those who did not lack in either department. I always looked up to Dan, still do. I hope he is at some of the races I am planningon this year with the USTS, as I can certainly use some help with the 350CCH.

Fred Hauenstein

01-11-2007, 03:26 PM

I looked in my testing logs to see when, and I ran one for a while in 1976. Came from ZAK. There must have been a few around??? It wasn't the "silver bullet" and it was touchy, so when it broke I shelved it. But that was about when I went "factory racing," anyway. (I should have stayed in PRO.;) )

Fred

Mike Schmidt

01-11-2007, 04:18 PM

Dave: Danny was one of the very best. I learned so much from racing against him. He was the complete package, motor guy, set up guy and one hell of a driver.

Fred: Yes you should have........Please come visit nest time your at Mike's.

Michael D-1

Master Oil Racing Team

01-11-2007, 09:16 PM

Now its starting to remind me about that old B&W silent movie when somebody fired a shotgun in the alley behind a two story boarding house and a man bailed out of every window holding his pants.;)

Hey Fred, how about posting a page of that log. I'm curious about how others went about recording their testing. and comments.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-12-2007, 01:24 PM

.....to see what he thought about posting pics. He said only one man could answer that and he's not around. But since it was more widely known than we originally thought, maybe a pic or two of the original design that was so erratic would be O.K. Whaddaya think Bill Van and Bill Kurps? Tim wouldn't mind, Mike's is welded up, and Fred broke his. Steve Jones!....wherever you are...I don't want to hear what you did with yours.;) :D Just kidding. (Trying to smoke him out. I know he's out there somewhere.}:)

Master Oil Racing Team

01-13-2007, 11:30 AM

These pics are from the test session in December of 1975. It was between Christmas and New Years. Ray Hardy testing some new ZAK pipes. Tim came down a couple of days later with some new boats and also had a Formula 350 that his wife Ruth tested on New Years Day.

L-R Baldy Baldwin, Jack Chance, Bill Van Steenwyk. Harry Pasturczak may not have made this trip. We had to do an overhaul on our C and we were making adjustments on the CAVIV (probably Bill Kurps').

Master Oil Racing Team

01-13-2007, 01:12 PM

....and the pics didn't make the trip. I tried to redo them, but it wouldn't let me, so here's another try.

Dan M

01-13-2007, 05:07 PM

Wayne,

The pipes on Ray's "C" were the first in a very short series that Harry was working on. If you look, they had a very long straight section. The converging cone was adjustable. It slid within the straight section. It was not, however adjustable while underway. There was a rod coming out the back with cross holes and a hitch pin secured the rod which held the cone in place. The straight section had a cover on the back that had a number of holes through it. The surface area of the holes matched the area of the stinger to make the proper backpressure. The motor was extremely quiet because of this. It was right after this that Dieter made the changes to his castings, and Harry's pipes became obsolete. I've always wondered how the pipes would have worked if Harry had set them up to be adjustable underway.

Thanks for all the great pics.:D :D

Dan

Master Oil Racing Team

01-13-2007, 08:22 PM

Dan---You described the pipes perfectly. I didn't know about Harry calling Bill Kurps in the middle of the night to send his Do-Fram-Us right away, but I am now completely convinced that this test session was the reason why. It makes sense. Harry has an internal sliding system, but it won't work underway. We had been experimenting with what we called CAV for a year. Ours is working erractically. Ray is in South Texas working with us and we have 3 more generations of the CAV behind us. Bill Kurps has one that has been working well. So Harry has him send (to who I don't know) it for the testing. What you have remembered Dan has answered a lot of questions. And I for one had forgotten about the changes Dieter made that affected Harry's work.

Bill Van Steenwyk

01-17-2007, 02:06 PM

Wayne and Billy K.

Sorry to not chime in right away about divulging the details on the "gadget" but I was out of town for a week visiting, catching fish, and slaughtering some "turd birds". Wayne, I'm sure you remember what they are, dont you?

Anyway on a long drive back from S. Florida I had a chance to think about David Weaver's comments re: "keeping a secret" like that was somehow not a proper thing to do, and that all knowledge should be shared and put public for the betterment of the sport. My real quick answer to that is when all the National Champions for the last 30 years share all their speed secrets, prop numbers, boat setups, etc., that will be the day..... It is a nice thought but it will never happen. All those folks worked too hard to get what Mark Donahue called the "unfair advantage" to spill their guts so someone could take that information and beat them with it. In this particular case although, that had no bearing on the keeping of this secret. It was kept because of the respect and affection for the person who took the basic idea and turned it into reality, and an item that definately inproved performance of the Konig of that day and time. As Wayne mentioned, not top speed particularly but the time around the course which is what it is all about anyway.

So here is what I propose:

I am very sure knowing Ray like I did, that he would get a real kick seeing what someone else might be able to do with something he hatched from an idea. How about I post on this thread the same basic conversation I had with him regards the idea of what I thought could be accomplished and a real sketchy idea of how it might work, because I suggested a very widely used part of an automobile ignition system as the basic way to actuate the device, and then he took it and made it in metal and made it work through several generations. I will post those thoughts and see if anyone else can think as well or even better than he could and make a better one with the benefit of 33 years of progress. It might even as Weaver suggested bring a few old Konigs out of the basement, and if so that would be great. It also might promote some of the basement work shop, run what you brung, mentality that more is needed of.

Let me know what you think.

ProHydroRacer

01-17-2007, 02:15 PM

Wayne and Billy K.

Sorry to not chime in right away .....................
So here is what I propose:

I am very sure knowing Ray like I did, that he would get a real kick seeing what someone else might be able to do with something he hatched from an idea. How about I post on this thread the same basic conversation I had with him regards the idea of what I thought could be accomplished and a real sketchy idea of how it might work, because I suggested a very widely used part of an automobile ignition system as the basic way to actuate the device, and then he took it and made it in metal and made it work through several generations. I will post those thoughts and see if anyone else can think as well or even better than he could and make a better one with the benefit of 33 years of progress. It might even as Weaver suggested bring a few old Konigs out of the basement, and if so that would be great. It also might promote some of the basement work shop, run what you brung, mentality that more is needed of.

Let me know what you think.

Bill I think it a good idea, it would be interesting to see how it would be worked out with the modern Konig/Konney.

The other Bill

Master Oil Racing Team

01-17-2007, 04:42 PM

I also think that's a good idea Bill Van, and I for one kept it secret for exactly the same reason as you. But as a suggestion, I would think a new thread under the technical section would be a good place to start it. There may be some that don't follow this thread that DO look at the technical section for new ideas. But the main reason is like me. If I go to look for something I had read sometime back, I can't remember where I saw it. I do know how to use the search feature now to good effect, but I think there are many out there who don't. It would be a lot easier to remember where to find it if it were in the technical section, as is the great thread on expansion chambers.

You start it Bill Van, and give some background info. I am looking forward to it, because I think there is a lot in the beginning I didn't know and some I forgot.

I remember the "stuffed" Turd Bird you gave my Dad so many years before Bill. In fact, he had it displayed on his trophy hutch where it remained until destroyed by his house fire. I was surprised to hear of you slaughtering them though. Even though there's no limit in Texas, who would want to clean more than one?;) :D

Bill Van Steenwyk

01-17-2007, 05:45 PM

I will take your suggestion Wayne, and post this info on the Technical Discussion section of Boat Racing Facts. I want to give this some thought for a few days first, and make sure that the initial post gives enough information about the premise of the device and the basic idea so as to allow enough disclosure to get someone started the right way if they are interested, but not so much as to just be telling exactly how to do it.

I have always wondered if certain people might have figured this out for sometime now, as there are some folks still running Konigs and doing really well with them, including National Championship's very recently, and the motors I am thinking of have that real drivability and almost instant acceleration out of the corner that leaves other competitors behind. Anyhow it should be interesting to see first of all if anyone is interested in following this line of investigation, and if so if they are able to make it work. That leaves the last piece of the puzzle, HOW WILL WE KNOW? I for one would continue to keep the secret if someone was successful and wanted to confide in me in return for the initial information.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-18-2007, 08:22 AM

.....now back to Hinton.

A couple of months ago Tim told me he didn't go to Hinton, but he did. He just forgot because he didn't race there. Tim and Ruth Butts, my Dad, and Johnny BZZZZ Bezecny stayed up at the lodge on top of the mountain. Jenny and Harry, Joe and Doris Rome and Debbie and myself stayed at some cabins at the bottom. It was almost an hour's drive down their by car from the top, but only 7 minutes by tram.

The first morning my Dad discovered a fine little country restaurant where we ate breakfast everyday after that. The owner and cook had a T shirt with a little frog on it that said "I'M HAPPIER THAN SH!T". The people there became fans of our and came down to the pits to watch us race.

On the left is Ruth, Brandy and Tim Butts talking to Bill Van Steenwyk.

David Weaver

01-18-2007, 05:05 PM

Wayne,

I thought that you had a 1100 runabout at Hinton. But there is none on your trailer. Maybe somebody had a similar paint job.

David

Master Oil Racing Team

01-18-2007, 05:27 PM

Jeff Lytle

01-18-2007, 06:48 PM

On the left is Ruth, Brandy and Tim Butts talking to Bill Van Steenwyk.

Behind you, walking to the back of the trailer with the #500 boat is Armand Hebert's sidekick, Randy Diablo.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-18-2007, 07:51 PM

....with that Eagle Eye to pick up on what the rest of us miss.:cool:

I was waiting to ask you who the Canadian was that pitted to our right when I get to the pit shots Jeff. Just hang on---it was one number off from Doug Thompson.

BTW---do you have a merit badge for that eye of yours?:D

Roy Hodges

01-19-2007, 09:01 AM

No David, the only time I was ever in an 1100 runabout was when I rode deck for Charlie Bailey at Alex in 1972.

And Roy, I never liked a 50 mm lens for a standard lens on 35mm cameras. I used a 35mm lens as standard for a long time to more approximate a human's peripheral vision until it was stolen. Then I just started using my 24mm. Most of my later year pits shots were with that. I was usually pretty close, but not so in this case.

But then I was wondering if David was looking through my camera at my boat trailer back then and got the idea of that runabout.;) :D ......................................
It makes me wonder how long it'd look , if shot with a fish eye (8-15 M M lens?) you could call it a "unlimited O B Hydro".Then ...if it had commeasurate power to it's size - I wouldn't have the cajones to race it

Master Oil Racing Team

01-19-2007, 09:27 AM

This thread is primarily about the journey of a Konig 700cc motor D41994 from Marshall Grant picking it up at the factory in Berlin in late 69 or early 70 to our purchasing it then all that happened until I got it back. But we run into some interesting sidelines or historical markers along the way.

This is about a 1000cc Yamato that was at the Pro Nationals in Hinton that year. These are probably the only photos the public will ever see of this behemoth, because I believe the two 500 cc powerplants were dismantled after this. One photo appeared in Powerboat in my coverage of the race, but this is the first time I ever enlarged any of the others.

Also as part of this story, you remember earlier how I said Tim Butts didn't race at Hinton because he didn't have a ride. I thought we would face off here after Dayton, but Joe Michelini took the V-8 Airmarine Butts hydro away from Tim. He got mad because Tim wasn't running his program exactly like he wanted, and one thing he wanted Tim to do was to run this rig in the 1100 cc Hydro Nationals at Hinton. Tim refused to so Joe canned him. Tim would not drive it because the motor was a skyscraper on the back of that cabover and it was Tim's opinion that it was too unwieldy to race and would be dangerous. I happen to agree. So Tim sat on the bank and had a great ol time as a spectator.

I do not remember if Joe intended to drive it himself at Hinton or had another driver scheduled. Maybe some of you others out there remember. I can't find a roster of the finals and they didn't make one of the qualifying heats because at the time of printing, they were waiting to see if there would be another entry or so to see if qualifying heats would be needed. I don't remember qualifying so I think we stopped at a full field. Anyway, all I can remember about the V8 cabover was breaking over on a plane on the intial test and something giving up. I think it was the coupling between the two motors. Sure wish Jim McKean would get on here and fill in the missing details. Maybe Denny Henderson or Craig Lawrence will.

Jeff Lytle

01-19-2007, 10:20 AM

I was waiting to ask you who the Canadian was that pitted to our right when I get to the pit shots Jeff. Just hang on---it was one number off from Doug Thompson.

I used to have that boat and engine I bought off Bill Wanamaker. He was the wallet that owned the boat/engine that Doug Thompson ran.
Kinda' cool knowing the rig you were running was a former US Nationals winner!

BTW-------Doug's number was 42, Glen Coates, another Canadian driver was #41

Tim Chance

01-19-2007, 11:07 AM

I remember that 8-cyl. Yamato at Constantine. Joe wasn't even allowed to put it in the water as whoever was the inspector (Zak, Mel Kirts, Clyde Queen??, I don't remember) felt that because of the high center of gravity and the method of fabrication that it was unsafe.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-19-2007, 01:13 PM

Jeff Lytle

01-19-2007, 02:22 PM

And Jeff. I could remember Doug's number. It was Glenn, No. 41 that was pitted a couple of boats to the right.

Cool!

Glen was a pig farmer who loved speed on water just like we all did. I remember him having 3 boats, all C's......A Shultze conventional, a Yale he got from the Happy Valley boys, and a full tunnel he built himself that was pretty quick. He used to run with us until that style of boat was banned.

Which did he have there, you remember?

Master Oil Racing Team

01-19-2007, 03:48 PM

I'll show you in the next post which will be the pit shots on either side, plus some bull sessions.

Tim Chance

01-19-2007, 05:02 PM

Was Constantine before the Nationals Tim? I didn't know Joe took it someplace else. Or was it at Constantine that Tim refused to drive it, thus got canned from driving there? I know Tim always went there.

BTW Tim. Look for upcoming pit shots. You were pitted just to our left.

And Jeff. I could remember Doug's number. It was Glenn, No. 41 that was pitted a couple of boats to the right.

O.K. I just Googled "When did Elvis die". Answer August 16, 1977. So I know I was in Hinton on that date. Constantine has always been in July, so yes, that motor was at a race before the Nationals. But did not run. I can't remember Tim's part in it at Constantine.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-19-2007, 05:10 PM

Dan M

01-19-2007, 06:16 PM

Wayne,

I think your Dad would have been the only one who could have roped it. It wouldn't dare mess with him.....:D ;)

Dan

denny henderson

01-19-2007, 08:32 PM

Wayne,

I have lot's of memorys of Hinton in '77 that I will share as I get the time. Some things I remember well and others I have no memory of at all. Probably because Hinton was where Nycea Aylor introduced me to Godzilla Juice. It was a sort of bloody mary with lots of Vodka and hot sause. One thing I do remember for sure is that the Michelini engine was two 350cc Yamato powerheads, not 500's. And it was the coupler between the powerheads that broke almost immediately after launching. I also remember thinking how rediculous the engine was. There was no way to have turned the boat safely, just too much weight too high above the transom. It sure was interesting, like so many other things at that race. More later.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-19-2007, 09:21 PM

.....remember I was still on my honeymoon & it wasn't Nyceas's godzilla juice to distract me but I always thought it was two 500's. Now thinking about that....it kind of makes me think Joe wanted to run that at Dayton rather than Tims' Ron Anderson Konig.:confused:

I need to call Tim & ask some questions. Thanks Denny. Joe had some comments about that today as well. Help us out as we try to piece this story together. If you can get Jim and/or Sean McKean to come on here it would be greaat.

David Weaver

01-20-2007, 04:16 AM

I have clear memory of Jim McKean pulling that engine over. And it did not get far...

Master Oil Racing Team

01-20-2007, 09:09 AM

I guess I had forgotten that it was two 350's, but it suddenly hit me this morning the irony. Tim never told me specifically why Joe took V8 away, only that he changed Joe's program up and Joe got mad. I couldn't find any pics of Joe at Dayton so I think he didn't show. When Tim said he wouldn't drive the Yamato, I thought that was at the Nationals, but it apparently goes back to Dayton and Constatine.

Had Tim done what Joe requested, there would have been a different outcome at Dayton. While I still wish I could have that last half lap back at Dayton, I would't take it if it meant not having those great duels with Tim. That to me was what racing is all about. If that monster motor would have held together for racing, Tim was too smart to take it through the turns agressively.

Roy Hodges

01-20-2007, 11:34 AM

...but I'll bet that's where Tim told Joe he wouldn't race that boat at the nationals, because Tim came to Hinton without any intention to race anything.

Hey Roy, I missed your earlier post about the fish eye and I agree. But the way the motor would have looked hanging on that transom would have made it a moot point. I don't think anyone would step up to crank it.:eek: ;) :D..........................................
You're certainly right about cranking it. You'd need a trained gorilla who loves boat racing ,to even consider
pulling its rope or, an electric starter , i don't remember EVER seeing an opposed motor with electric starting .

denny henderson

01-20-2007, 12:08 PM

I talked to Jim last night and helped him get logged into BRF, it was his first time and I'll bet he was up all night looking at pictures and reading stories. I'll try to get him to post some stories or at least help me remember some of the amazing things that happened there. He's like a lot of us that were at Hinton, not real good with a computer.
There were lots of crashes. I think Malcom crashed in "A" and "C" hydro, Tom Kirts blew over and distroyed his runabout, I crashed before the start of "B" hydro. There was a horrible crash in one of the heats of "A" hydro, I think it was a qualifying heat. The pack was about 8 seconds from the starting line when someone came from the outside of the coarse at a 90degree angle and T-boned one of the drivers in the pack. It was scary but I don't think anyone was seriously hurt. Does anyone remember that crash?
The Japanese team was there with two drivers and two new "B" hydros, one built by Gary Pugh and the other by Craig Lawrence. They liked both boats but I can't remember how well they did. Doug Thompson won "B" hydro
and as I recall, just barely finish the last heat. Something to do with nitro.
What a beautiful and treacherous place to race.

Composite Specialties

01-20-2007, 01:03 PM

I was there at Hinton, I was about 14 years old and remember that crash well. I was standing beside Tom Harden when Malcom and everyone else was going for the start. From the far outside, someone lost a gearcase, I mean it was gone and the boat took a left turn across the start, hit Malcom and others and created a huge crash. I remember Tom Harden was so angry but was better when Malcom came in from the crash boat.

Next, Malcom went out for the "C" race and made it thru the start, thru the first turn and was coming down the long back stretch, which was very close to us standing in the pits, and then Malcoms boat took a hop and then hooked the fin and he barrel rolled many times down the back stretch and ended up right in from of his own pits. Tom Harden started yelling at Mal to swim to shore, and he did. Mal walked up the shore line and sat in the chair and Tom swore he was going to burn that boat. When they brought the boat in, it was beat up pretty bad and Tom stated that he would never race that boat again, and he did not.

I also remember Kirts blowing that runabout over at the start and they drug the boat against the bank line right beside the starting clock and left it there.

I also remember that Art Pugh was very upset with the Japanese team for something and was really telling many people his opinion about them.

That was a great place to race.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-20-2007, 01:09 PM

That's great news about Jim getting on. He joined sometime back but I never see him logged on. I guess he had help then too. There's probably a majority of the racers from that day that don't know their way around a computer very well, but there's nothing like BRF to give you the incentive to learn.

On every article I had published in POWERBOAT, they gave it the title. Powerboat titled the 1977 Pro Nationals "The Pro Crash Bash". It is posted here somewhere. In the article I had mistakenly written that Skip Birbarie's crash was two boats blowing over together, but he corrected me. It was caused by a lower unit coming loose. That was one fierce crash in 250 hydro at the start. Every one of the Kirts clan crashed. Most of the crashes occurred because of the layout of the course and the milling area. The boats funneled together at the starting line. One of the things I intend to post is a layout of the course in relation to the waterways.

Regarding Jerry Kirts crash in 500 hydro while testing, Joe Rome reminded me of how tough the Kirts's are. He went upside down while running approximately 90 and his helmet was torn off. He also dislocated a shoulder. Mary Kirts led them all behind a trailer and told Jerry to hold still while Dan and Tom grabbed him and pulled it back in place. The officials left it up to the Kirts clan to determine whether or not Jerry was in any condition to be able to race.:D

And Roy, Dieter built an opposed 6 cylinder Konig that Hans Krage drove to back to back UIM World Championships in OF. Then Marshall Grant had an 8 cylinder Konig (2 opposed 500's side by side) that had electric start. There are pics of that starter posted somewhere on Random Shots From The Pits. Hans would fire his six off then go find a good place to park about 20 to 30 seconds from the starting line and kill the engine. Just at the right moment he would fire it up, and he was quite successful in making good starts.

Bill Van Steenwyk

01-20-2007, 09:39 PM

For anyone that has an interest, the information has now been posted on the Technical Info forum.

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28116

epugh66

01-20-2007, 10:27 PM

The Japanese team was there with two drivers and two new "B" hydros, one built by Gary Pugh and the other by Craig Lawrence.

Gary didn't build a boat for Yamato till years later. I believe they ran a Butts with red engine cowl, I check my pics.

At Hinton, in 1977, Gary was 17. He was racing boat #4, a 125 that he won the nationals with and his first 250 that was very fast , but something engine related failed.

Denny, I like the little logo below your post.

As far as my pop getting mad, well that could happen. I couldn't imagine it being Yamato though, they didn't compete in either 125 or 250.

Roy Hodges

01-21-2007, 08:58 AM

And Roy, Dieter built an opposed 6 cylinder Konig that Hans Krage drove to back to back UIM World Championships in OF. Then Marshall Grant had an 8 cylinder Konig (2 opposed 500's side by side) that had electric start. There are pics of that starter posted somewhere on Random Shots From The Pits. Hans would fire his six off then go find a good place to park about 20 to 30 seconds from the starting line and kill the engine. Just at the right moment he would fire it up, and he was quite successful in making good starts.[/QUOTE]...........

.................................................. ..................................
WELL, i guess this proves that there is (almost ) nothing new under the sun. just about anything one can think of has been tried , or at least already thought of . Has anybody ever put two konigs together , with one powerhead OFFSET to the (port) left side ? I know that somebody might have THOUGHT about it , since i just did .

Skoontz

01-21-2007, 09:35 AM

Wayne that 8 cylinder is incredible and yet reminds me of two things. I've always had this twisted dream of taking 4- 100 cubic inch Harley Motors and connecting them to a two speed Chevy slush box on a bike then running port fuel injection up through the middle of the tank like organ pipes........
The second is memories of my dad....Built like I read one of the guys post about your dad, He would cap off the tank with "Blue" Sunoco 260 and Ramco racing oil. Then would wrap a 3/8" rope with a 1" drilled dowell handle around the flywheel of his 4-60 Rude...Put the spark advance about 3/8 up, and advance the throttle and lock it similarly...Mind you no saftey to kill the boat here...One foot over the seat, one foot braced against the transom, I would point the boat nose toward open water, he would let out this blood curdling grunt, (and you better be on the opposite side of where he was yanking that rope) the rope would pull about half off the wheel, the engine would pop in that primitive snarl pre-WWll Evinrude motors would do, the rope would unfold from the flywheel, the boat would rock up on plane, slap the water down, and at the same time, he would squeeze his legs together, lift the one over the transom, slam down onto the plywood seat of the Rockholt, reach back with one hand, advance the spark all the way and simultaniously squeeze the throttle. The exhaust opening would lift from the water lever as the boat rocked onto plane, and as the boat spiraled in the opposite direction of the prop torque, he would begin to make the steering corrections to keep in between the banks.... It would turn tighter and tighter circles as it increased speed, he would slump over the wheel and hang on for dear life with every single person standing on both shores in shear awe of what they heard and saw...The whole process went down in about 5 seconds, or at least so it seemed....

That's what I see would happen with that 8 cylinder boat, at least while it ran....Was I even close????

Master Oil Racing Team

01-21-2007, 01:32 PM

...but no. In this case the driver (& I can't even remember who it was) had the steering wheel and throttle so he was ready to go when it was set in the water. The pit crew had the transom in the air when it cranked , and I can't remember for sure, but I think Jim McKean cranked it. All I remember from there is that it just went straight for a short bit before something broke. I don't think it got more than just getting on a plane. But the crank rope was just like the ones my Dad made and that part of the cranking process was very accurate.

Now for Roy's question. I am not exactly sure what you mean by offset to the port side, but that would be where the carbs were. If you check out the Marshall Grant thread you will see two 500cc Konigs bolted together on a tower with two driveshafts and electric start. They were butted together on the exhaust side and exhaust ports were changed from the original motors. Or now that I am thinking about it, the exhausts were probably configured in the same way Dieter did the motorcycle engines. When Marshall first ran it at Lakeland in 1973 it was started by two people trying to sychronize pulling the rope at the same time and the same power. It was later that he added electric start.

Roy Hodges

01-21-2007, 02:32 PM

I meant one powerhead totally to port side of the one in the STANDARD powerhead position , for offset weight to the port side , for help in the turns , but, that's probably too much weight bias to port side . Total of two powerheads . it seems to me that nothing is impossible, if one has unlimited cubic money .

Mark75H

01-21-2007, 02:40 PM

The advantage of front and back blocks as Konig did with the 1000cc set up (yes it was 2 motorcycle blocks) ... the output shafts (driveshafts) are one behind the other and both go directly down to the prop shaft. Powerheads mounted side by side would have to be geared together as done on the Scott-Atwater "Square Six" or Anzani double powerhead motors ... adding even more weight

denny henderson

01-22-2007, 09:36 AM

Eric,

I don't know what I was thinking, of coarse the other boat was a Butts. But the accident I was referring to in "A" hydro was another wreck other than the one Malcolm was in. I was in that heat, in fact I watched the crash just to my left. I think it was Skip's gear case that broke off.
Marc, the accident I was referring to may have been in a different class, and I don't think very many people saw it.

P.S. Jim said that 8 cylinder engine was easy to start.

Bill Van Steenwyk

01-22-2007, 10:51 AM

You need to get Don Nichols or Bruce Nicholson on this thread. They built a 6 cyl I believe it was, radial 1100 back in the early 80's using yamaha 125 cylinders. I never saw the motor but from hearing Don talk about it I believe it was two layers of three cylinders each for a total of 6, making it no higher that a 4 cyl opposed. LOTS of power and it was raced several times, once at the PRO Nationals in Bakersfield in 82 I think.

Master Oil Racing Team

01-22-2007, 12:48 PM

Bill Fales' son Steve (N-77 two) has Bruce's Yamaha, but I didn't think it was a radial. I think he want's to get rid of it if anyone is interested.

Mike Schmidt

01-22-2007, 04:16 PM

It is sort of a radial.....If you look at it from the top, it looks like a radial. Best description is three opposed 250 motors stacked up but twisted 120 degrees. By doing this Bruce was able to make it a lot shorter than a flat 6. I did a bunch of work on it for Bill Fales about 23-24 years ago. Six Yamaha YZ 125 cylinders, six Mikuni 36MM carbs, six expasion chambers. The deal was I did all the work on it and would get to run it in 1100 Runabout at Depue that year. Bill was going to go after the Kilo record with it. I made two runs with it one Sunday morning in Hartford, Ct. In less than 2 laps I had destroyed two new Konig gearcases. I built all the stuff to mount it on one of his Speedmaster units, but he lost interest in the project.

The design of the YZ 125 cylinders of early '80s was for a 5 or 6 speed race bike. They had very high exhaust ports for a boat motor. Even though it was a 750, it had almost no bottom end but when it came on the pipe all hell broke loose. Without a doubt, the badest thing I have ever driven.

Bruce Nicholson must have had way to much time on his hands back then. His latest creations are a twin crank TZ 250 and a twin rotary valve VRP 250. He is a VERY sick boy.....

Michael D-1

Jeff Lytle

01-22-2007, 06:02 PM

He was an idol of mine when I was growing up. I'm almost 47, so when he was in his heyday in the early 70's.........Well, ---you do the math, I was just a kid.
He always took the time to speak to me, wherever we met. His rigs were always shiny clean, and his trailer had all kinds of cool centerfold posters taped to the ceiling. Remember, I was 12 Two things that really facinated me back then, fast alkys, and fast women!! (Later on that!)
He traveled with another cool guy named Randy Diablo who had a spotless B hydro. Together, in their day at the alky races here in Ontario and Quebec, there wern't many who could beat them.
Another character who traveled with Armand and Randy, was their big, grey haired pit man named Vin. He had a really weird way of launching the boats when they took off. Instead of letting the boat down, or pushing it off the stand after the driver gave the nod, he would give it all he had with a massive heave ho, and literally push the boat away as hard as he could. This usually was followed with a massive drenching, as he was usually off balance after the boat was away, and he usually fell in after it. Kinda' dangerous if you ask me, but that was Vin.
I remember coming to a race one weekend with my Dad, and off I went looking for my favorite team. They wern't too hard to spot. Large white boxed trailer, with two shiny new Aerowings close by. I arrived to greetings all around, and asked where Vin was. Along he came, but I noticed he had a huge burn on his right bicep. This was huge!, about 6" x 8", and looking awfully sore too. He told me he burned his arm on the hot pipes, and I shouldn't fret, cause it was nuthin'.
Armand had a brand new Butts there, all painted and gleaming. "Miss Pharmacie Vachon" was the boats name, and on the red cowling, was the name L'Pic 4. Somewhere, in an old Propeller mag, is an ad from Tim Butts, with a pic of Armand sitting in this boat. Life jacket on, but helmet off--wearing a big Armand smile. I'd love to see it again........Probably out of a 1973-1975 issue. Anyone?

He gave me the shirt off his back at a race once. It was his Team shirt with a pic of the boat on the back, and a big question mark on the front, and in french it said "A tu pris ta pilue?" (Have you taken your pill?) I asked him for a shirt, and he gave me his.........better still, he had raced and won wearing it! Cooooooooooooollllllllllllll!!!

About 10 years later, years after Armand had passed away, a group of my buddies from Toronto went out to the East coast of Canada to race two weekends in a row. The money was good--we were running Grand Prix--Run whatcha' brung, and if you have ever been to Canada's Atlantic Provinces in the Summertime, you'll know the hospitality is amazing. (So is the lobster!)
Henk Engels (A hydro) Roy Alexander (D hydro) Greg Hall (C hydro), and Dave Rawson (C hydro) all piled the boats to the rafters on the trailers and took off. They arrived a few days before the race, and were speaking to some of the locals in the pit area who had arrived. They all warned my friends "Youse guys don't have a chance!! My buddy _______ has the fastest boat in the maritimes, and he's gonna' beat you up bad!
My friends heard this same story tons of times over the next few days from different people, all about this guy who had this super fast boat that ran on alcohol that was going to whip us mainlanders back home.
The morning of the race arrived, and still no hometown boy. Then a sudden cheer and there he was, driving towards us in a pick up truck with a boat bouncing around all over the place. We all looked in amazement to see Armand's L'Pic 4 sitting in the back of this old pick up, not tied down or anything. It had the engine on it too. What a hell of a mess that once beautiful Butts was in! Really.........It's all we could do but laugh.

Well..........I've dragged this one on longer than I wanted to. The short ending is he didn't clean our clocks. We showed HIM, the proper way to fly around a race course. He packed up, and drove away the same way he arrived, and we never saw him again.

Guy

01-30-2007, 02:51 PM

Wasn't it also at Hinton that year, where Mel Kirts dumped it real hard in the 700 Runabout race.
The flip caused a pretty deep gash in one of his Arms. By the time he (& the boat) were brought back to the pits, his Arm was bleeding pretty badly. Yet, while someone was wrapping up his arm, Mel's only comment was "FUEL IT UP AND GIT IT BACK IN THE WATER!!!". To which he DID get back in the boat AND made the "restart" of the heat (though I can't recall if he ended up winning the Nat's that year or not).

Later that night at a party (at that Campground everyone stayed at thats not too far from the Pits), I recall someone commenting: "I don't know whats more bullet-proof, a KIRTS or an old Squareblock Konig"...

Guy

Master Oil Racing Team

01-30-2007, 04:50 PM

Right race, right motor, wrong boat Guy. It was 700 hydro. Mel ran over me in the second heat of 700 hydro. I will get to that part soon if I can get my new computer to allow pics to be attached. I can certainly understand that comment you overheard.:D

Master Oil Racing Team

02-06-2007, 08:30 AM

Stupid computers :mad: Or is it me:rolleyes: . Oh Well---I guess this scanner will work again so back to the story.

Here are a few pits shots from our pits. Hey Joe! Think you can find the pic you were taking and post it?

Mark75H

02-06-2007, 08:37 AM

I love Hinton ... the way the site is practically made for racing, the way the motor sounds echo off the mountains for a second or tow after the motors have stopped.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-06-2007, 11:39 AM

A few more Jeff.

Jeff Lytle

02-06-2007, 01:29 PM

Pic three............Did Joe get to go for a ride??

He couldn't have enjoyed it as much as he should...............Looks like he lost a pipe.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-06-2007, 02:25 PM

We'll have to get Joe to fill us in on that pic because I can't remember myself.:D But if you look closely behind the life jacket you can see a stinger sticking up.:cool:

Master Oil Racing Team

02-06-2007, 08:24 PM

Joe remembers that I had to get back to the pits for something. When the pipe came off I went to the pits at the far end so I wouldn't lose it. water was too deep and too many boats to walk it back so Joe hitched a ride.

Now Sam's observation and a question: You're right about the sound Sam. And the water was great. What I remember about the pit area was that it was very long and flat. A great place to spread out a lot of boats with plenty of elbow room. The course was too long for my taste though. I prefer a shorter course with more turns for a nationals. A mile and 2/3rds is for concentrating on the ultimate speed records.

Since that was the only time I ever raced at Hinton, I was wondering if there tended to be a lot of crashes. There were many in 1977, and a lot of them had to do with the angle boats approached the start. It was very deceiving when milling for the 1 minute gun, then lining up. I only went into the open water on the right once and I could see a problem with a dogleg if you were in the wrong position. I made the rest of my starts from the inside.

Some of the guys milled in that area since there was a lot of room. I always wondered if the other races held there experienced the same problems. Other than all the crashes, we all had a great time. I scanned a layout of the course as depicted in the program with added lines showing lines of approach to the start. The second pic is Tom Kirts destroying his brand new DeSilva runabout.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 07:27 AM

What's the deal???:D

jrome

02-07-2007, 07:35 AM

Inspection Was A mile Away It Seemed Like.that Is Why I Got A Tow When I Could Get It. The Water Was Deep Even If You Are 6ft 5.wayne Would Have Been Under Water.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 08:26 AM

Everybody in a pit crew has more than one specialty.;) Joe was our deep water man.:D

Here's a pic Mal's hydro that made Tom so mad. It must have been the second heat of 500 hydro. The first heat my throttle stuck wide open setting up for turn three. It was a little spooky as I had never experienced that before. It took several seconds to get it to back off. Not knowing what was going on, I didn't trust it enough to continue racing so I returned to the pits. I didn't go out the second heat, so that's when I took this pic.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 08:52 AM

I forgot I had this one.

MikeyHauenstein

02-07-2007, 09:04 AM

What I remember about the pit area was that it was very long and flat. A great place to spread out a lot of boats with plenty of elbow room. The course was too long for my taste though. I prefer a shorter course with more turns for a nationals. A mile and 2/3rds is for concentrating on the ultimate speed records.

I raced at Hinton three times (’93, ’95 and ’97) and I’m not sure we ran the same course twice. Compared to the 1-2/3–mile course layout you posted and described, Wayne, one Stock/Mod Nationals course from the 90s kept the first turn in the same place but pulled the second turn in tighter (north?) while keeping the start line in place. This would mitigate funneling into the starting chute I suppose, but it seems like anytime the starting chute is not parallel with the bank there is going to be a problem. Another variation on the course repositioned it to keep the 1977 second turn in place, with the first turn moved south. This may have been done because of wind conditions that week, though.

There was a big painting on the wall of a cheap Chinese restaurant on Holly Hall St. in Houston (Astrodome/Reliant neighborhood) that looked just like the view from the pits at Hinton. My brother and I each lived in that area at different times and he alerted me to it so I had to check it out. (I never ate at the place as often as he did, though.) Anyway, we always enjoyed Hinton. Wayne mentioned Pipestem and staying down at the bottom of the mountain. I remember one year when my brother had too much work to do, as usual, so he stayed in the room while Mom and Dad and I went to dinner. We watched a big storm blow in while we were at dinner, the resort ended up shutting down the tram and we had to stay in the lodge at the top of the hill while Dan was stranded down at the bottom. I’m not really sure what he had for dinner that night.

We also brought an inflatable dinghy with an outboard one year when I camped at Bluestone State Park. It was a fun way to get to and from the pits each day, and a good way to make the long run from the inspection area back to our pits with torn-down engines. It has to be one of the deeper bodies of water we ever raced on—that might be interesting to research.

Composite Specialties

02-07-2007, 09:09 AM

Yes, that was the pic I was talking about a while back. That is Mal swimming to the shore to his pits as Tom was directing him from the shore line. Man was Tom Harden mad that day.

Jeff Lytle

02-07-2007, 09:11 AM

Here's a pic Mal's hydro that made Tom so mad. It must have been the second heat of 500 hydro. The first heat my throttle stuck wide open setting up for turn three. It was a little spooky as I had never experienced that before. It took several seconds to get it to back off. Not knowing what was going on, I didn't trust it enough to continue racing so I returned to the pits. I didn't go out the second heat, so that's when I took this pic.

Just so everyone knows........Mal's boat is the one with the pickles sticking out of the water!!

The boat passing by is driven by Dan Kirts.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 09:43 AM

.....here's one for you.:D

Jeff Lytle

02-07-2007, 10:10 AM

Well I'll be..................

I'll have to try to get in touch with Glen to tell him about this site, and your fabulous pics.

Glen's rig, a Shultze he named Honeycomb, was the 1st 4 banger Konig I ever saw race, and finish when I was a kid. I had seen them b4, but they always had problems and failed to finish. That was around 1973ish.

Jeff Lytle

02-07-2007, 01:26 PM

Just got off the phone with Glen!

So cool----Speaking about racing and memories we had back in the racing days. Memories like that shared with someone else who was there seem like it happened just yesterday, yet in reality, it was over 20 years ago.

I told him about how this thread has turned it's attention to the race in Hinton, and how you have posted pics. Expect him to register and log on soon. He even told me some stuff about conversations he had with Baldy :D

I'll leave that up to him to explain.

Welcome to BRF Glen!

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 01:59 PM

I'm having trouble getting lighting and contrast correct between my computer and BRF. They had been gaining contrast, now this one darkened up. Here's a test.

Some down time at Hinton while the rain washes the pits down, and somebody had more motor troubles than they thought.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 02:02 PM

2nd one is still too dark. That's better. I overshot the brightness to see what would happen.

Glenn Coates

02-07-2007, 07:03 PM

Wayne, thanks for the pictures from Hinton, I'll have to check to see if I have pictures as well.

This is a mental file that I have not been into in some time. The last power boat race I was at was in Littleton, New Hampshire, September 1984. Ed Desaire from Utica, New York came over top of me and dislocated my hip. A short time later a fellow came by and bought all my equipment.

I rember pitting beside the Master Oil Team, and Baldy commenting on my breakfast culinary skills. "Burn it and Scrape it!!" he would say . Sadly I no longer have my Master Oil T-shirt as I traded it to some Frenchman at the UIM World Championship in Dayton, Ohio the following year. I still Have the Circle Motonautique - Paris shirt which I got in return.

The #41 Schulze hydro was actually a "B" boat which I ran in "C", a wee tad on the small side for courses like Hinton, but really good in rough water that we usually had in Ogdensburg or Tonawanda. The boat had been imported into Canada in 1968 from Austria by Jim Bell if I remember correctly. The engine was VC73319 and was one of the few engines that Ric Hall had brought directly to Canada from Germany and not through Scott Smith.

George Andrews Sr. I believe was the tech inspector at this race and thought that the boat was one that he had built. The boats that he had built to a great degree were Schulze copies and he was suprised to see an original. I think that I ended up 5th overall, having a DNF due to a wire break from the battery in the first heat and a 3rd in the second heat of the finals.

Was a great regatta in a great location.

Glenn Coates

Jeff Lytle

02-07-2007, 07:25 PM

Say Glenn..................Did you make it through all 40+ pages of the amazing story yet?? Every time I check who's online........You're still there!!:)

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 08:11 PM

Jeff--I can remember when I first started this thread you and David L-6 were running back and forth from your other projects to get through and it was not even two pages long yet.;) :D

Hey Glenn--welcome. I'm trying to figure out the scenario in which he might say something like that. Maybe toast? Or, I doubt you had cabrito. You could cook it quickly over a hot fire real close then scrape off the charcoaled bits. You must have clicked something in his brain.:D

Since I have been posting here I have come across letters from many old racing friends. Among them are some from you. I look forward to your posts.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-07-2007, 08:35 PM

Here's a couple of the drivers who joined the Pro Crash Bash.

Joe must have said he wasn't going to change clothes anymore. If I couldn't drive back to the pits, I would have to push the boat myself.;)

David Weaver

02-08-2007, 07:15 AM

Since that was the only time I ever raced at Hinton, I was wondering if there tended to be a lot of crashes. There were many in 1977, and a lot of them had to do with the angle boats approached the start. It was very deceiving when milling for the 1 minute gun, then lining up. I only went into the open water on the right once and I could see a problem with a dogleg if you were in the wrong position. I made the rest of my starts from the inside.

Wayne,

I believe that the 1 2/3 mile survey course was only used for the 1976 Stock Outboard Nationals and the 1977 Alky Nationals. There was a push to have a record course for the nationals in those days. My recollection of many races at Hinton was 4 lap races on a mile or 1 1/4 mile race course. Over 1,000 boats competed in those two nationals.

One of my early races was at Hinton in a J stock hydro. That race just went on forever!! I do not believe the large course was ever used again following the Alky Nationals. I believe that the SO's had their nationals at Hinton 3 or 4more times, but the PRO's just did not like the experience. We had some good PRO races (local) in the mid 1980's that attracted drivers from Florida and Georgia headed home from the Nationals in DePue.

DW

Jeff Lytle

02-08-2007, 07:31 AM

Hey Glenn........I just spoke to Henk Engels, he's going to look us up and register.

Do me a favour Wayne? Could you have a peek at your negative files from Hinton and see if you have any pics of Henk??

Slipstream Racing Team, A hydro, boat 97

Thanks

Master Oil Racing Team

02-08-2007, 08:05 AM

I'll look after I get back from the valley. What I have been thinking of and would really like to do is have someone start a thread on Hinton. There are quite a few more photos I have that I don't plan on posting here because it doesn't relate to the 700cc hydro. But, in the past I have posted some off and on at the Action and Random Shots threads that have created lots of interest. Hinton is one of those historical racing venues that can generate a lot of stories. Joe started one on Alexandria a couple of years ago. I think the famous race courses should have their own thread.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-08-2007, 01:55 PM

Hey Jeff, you misunderstood me. The Hinton stuff we already posted was part of the Amazing Story. I just haven't gotten to the 700 hydro stuff yet. The little sidetrips are just part of it.

When I was going through my pics to pick out the ones that would go to the story, I saw a lot of them that I know members would like, but would not fit here. And there has always been a lot of interest in the Hinton stories. The Stock guys have much more to put on than the Pro guys, but I thought it would be a good place to find all things pertaining to Hinton. I just do it that way because I can't always remember where to find something I had seen earlier. I was wanting to put some of the other Hinton pics on a Hinton dedicated thread.

Here's what I was really thinking. Not just the 1977 Pro Nationals. I already did one like that. But something like this. Maybe a google map of the race course, old programs, rosters of drivers and results from past racing, pics from all the categories that raced there plus the stories that go with racing. Maybe some funny tales from restaurants or hanging around the pits at night, T shirts, tales of travel to and from , etc. Kind of like we were doing with Alexandria.

BTW...You should have been with me today. I was looking down about 6 feet from a beautiful specimen of a Western Diamondback Rattlesnake nearly 5 feet long.:cool:

David Weaver

02-08-2007, 04:37 PM

jrome

02-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Here are a few pictures that I found of Hinton.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-08-2007, 08:54 PM

That's exactly right David. Even when I pulled up next to the dude and looked him straight in his beady eyes, I kept my arm inside the door.:D He didn't exactly like my looks either and curled up but didn't rattle. After we checked each other out, he turned and slowly slithered back in the direction he came from. It was still too cool for his girlfriend to be out and about anyway.

Too many pics from Joe to be covering at one sitting and I will be out of pocket now for awhile. It looks like one of our kid's old Power Rangers nemesis fixing to jump Joe in the deep water:eek: ;) . And Big George and his wife Susan are talking some serious stuff. I don't know what Alan Ishii is doing, but it must be plotting something with the North Dallas gang. That's some great shots of the pits and river. I hope Jeff can bring the Hinton stuff back that was part of this story;) and that we can add a Hinton thread that you can put your stuff on David.:D

Jeff Lytle

02-09-2007, 06:23 PM

Paul Guerin, aka Slipstreem Guy has just registered.

I called Paul and told him about this thread since he was in Hinton as well, helping to pit for the Slipstream Team.

He told me tonight, he thinks Greg Hall and Vic Pede were the drivers there--He wasn't sure if Henk was or not.

Sooooooooo, the Canadians that were there:

Greg Hall...............500ccH #153 Aerowing
Vic Pede...............250ccH #88 Homebuilt
Glenn Coates.........500ccH #41 Schutze
Doug Thompson.....350ccH #42 Marchetti

and possibly, Henk Engels.......250ccH #97 Rawsoncraft

One year I hurt my back bretty bad, and I asked Paul if he would drive my 350cc rig. He was a natural, winning his 1st race back in a boat in years. This was the 78 Hinton Nationals winner I bought from Doug Thompson. That's Paul driving.......Notice it says Lytle / Guerin Racing on the side.

Welcome Paul!

Master Oil Racing Team

02-12-2007, 09:02 AM

Jeff---according to my roster of elimination heats Greg and Vic were signed up in 250 hydro and Greg and Glenn in 500 hydro. No mention of Doug or Henk at all. Hey...good job of recruiting.:cool:

Glenn, here is one of you chasing the late great George Andrews, Jr. in 500 hydro.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-12-2007, 10:46 AM

Here is the roster for the 700cc hydro class. Jerry Kirts was prequalified as the defending national champion. I don't know who the other prequalifier was. Tim Butts was the Eastern Division champ, but he was not racing. I can't remember who won the Western Division. I flipped at that race while chasing Steve Jones, but Steve apparently didn't win either as he had to qualify. It might have been Don Nichols.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-13-2007, 03:32 PM

I can't find my notes on qualifying heats or who made the finals, but I do have a few notes in another book. I won my qualifying heat by 12 seconds. I don't know why such a big lead, and I don't know what the average speed was. One of the rare pics Debbie took on the front straight. She always took pictures of me when I was just a dot on the back straight.

Jeff Lytle

02-13-2007, 06:19 PM

I flipped at that race while chasing Steve Jones.

I remember my buddy Roy had some pics of your crew carrying a Master Oil boat out of the water in pieces. Was this the race where you destroyed a boat?

Master Oil Racing Team

02-13-2007, 08:17 PM

No Jeff--I had described that flip way back toward the beginning of the Amazing Story when I went across the deck of Tom Berry's hydro and pushed my turn fin up. That was the Western Divisionals in 1977. It was the easiest flip I ever had.

The only boat I ever destroyed was in 1967 when I stuffed and went through the breaking up pieces of the bow. My Dad gave that boat to Craig Lawrence and Alan Registar and they rebuilt it. That's when Craig, Alan and Denny Henderson got their start building boats. It wasn't a Master Oil boat though.

Neil Bauknight crunched through the right side of the cockpit on a Master Oil boat at Alexandria I believe in 1979. He bought it from us after the 1978 season but still had the paint job. That boat wasn't destroyed though. It just needed some repairs. I can't think of any that were brought to the shore in pieces. It may have been the one we sold that Eric Pugh said they hauled back East some place. It would be interesting to see the pics and try to figure out what boat it was. Maybe Roy might remember the race course.

Jeff Lytle

02-14-2007, 06:39 AM

It must have been after you sold the boat. I remember the pic showed the right side of the boat was all pushed out like it happened in a corner, with a bunch of people lifting it out. I don't remember seeing any of your crew in the pic either.

Roy Alexander was a Canadian driver / owner of a 700ccH called Devastation. HE was always a top contender in all our races up here, and did well in the U.S. as well. Sadly, he passed away a number of years ago.

I remember the pic cause' I was putting a collage of photos together for the boat show one year, and he let me look thru his collection of pics to use. That collage of everyone's primo pics is probably in the back of someone's closet somewhere, cause' it was never seen again after the show. Perhaps some of the newest Canadian members here will remember where it went.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-14-2007, 09:09 AM

....and I should have left for the shop two hours ago, but I have been looking for it. This is all I have found so far.

A 10-6 Marchetti, and the only boat I destroyed. Stuffed in Clarendon, Texas in 1967.

The other two are from Alexandria, but I can't remember what year. It was 1981 or 83 I think. I did not write the year on the negative sheet and never made a contact sheet. Clue--anyone recognizing the T shirt will I.D. the year. It was Neil Bauknights boat then. He kept my paint scheme and numbers as I was no longer driving 350 hydro. I do have another pic of Neil's boat (same one) with the right side pooched out. I think it was from 1979.

I didn't find Roy's name on the 1979 roster and I don't have the other years, so I think the boat with pieces must have been this second crash. I keep finding stuff I had forgotten about.

gearbox49m1

02-14-2007, 10:14 AM

Boy, does that picture bring back memories. Alan and I rebuilt that 10' 8" Marchetti and ran it for two more years. The boat is tied to the top of our trailer which we pulled with Alans' Corvette. I also remember you, Alan, myself, and I think Mark, hanging out at the local drive in the night before the race. We were seeing what the local "chicks" were like in Clarendon and if I remember right, there weren't any!

Master Oil Racing Team

02-14-2007, 11:03 AM

That's right Craig. For a Saturday night that drive in was dead. The only chicks I can remember are two nice looking ones that looked in the window of the ambulance just before they hauled me off.:( :rolleyes:

denny henderson

02-14-2007, 12:31 PM

Wayne,

Your dad really started something when he gave them that boat. His generosity had far reaching affects.
Regarding the picture of the "B" boat, Que Pasa, at Alex. As you said, at the time of that wreck the boat was owned by Neil B. I was trying to remember which race and year it was and for some reason I can only remember the 79' race. I have no memories of 78' at Alex. So I called Richard, and he called Neil. Here is what Neil said. The wreck happened in 78', in the first turn of a qualifying heat. Neil and Danny K. got together. He also said Danny was running a Konig. If that is correct, then it had to be 78' because Danny ran a Yamato in 79'. We must have had a race at Alex. in Oct. that year after the Natls. at San Antonio.
We keep interupting An Amazing Story.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-15-2007, 08:36 AM

The interruptions help jog the memory;) , besides these are interesting side trips. :) I was looking in the wrong binder for the pics because I didn't realize how stupid we were. I ran that rig only once when it was right. It was at the Nationals in San Antonio.

Tim had built that boat then later added some extra pads on the sponsons. Dieter put the motor together for me to run at the OB World Championships at Dayton. With the power of the motor and the addition to the sponsons it became the wildest B hydro ride I ever had. It was always on the verge of being out of control. Even on the straightaways it was hard to handle. You could get the sponsons up, but the tail would hop around and when you went to set up for the turn the sponsons would dance wildly. And with the power on through the turns the boat hopped and skittered.

I qualified 6th, and was thus the standby for the American team. My time on each of the 3 laps was within a couple hundreths of a second each lap. I pushed it to the edge and it wasn't good enough. So we loaned the boat to Guisseppe Landini and he put a 3 blade Rollo cleaver on it. I never saw such a dramatic improvement in a boat's handling before or since. Because of some politics he had one heat that he won tossed out, but he finished 2nd or third overall. The boat became not only stable, but the true potential with it and the motor and prop could be achieved. You could harness the power of that motor and drive it hard all the way around the course. Guisseppe gave us that prop.

I only drove it ONE TIME when it was set up right. I should have won the nationals at San Antonio. First heat was an easy win. In the second heat I was on the inside. Tim jumped the gun and inadvertently cut me off twice in the first turn. By the time I got the motor cleared out I was behind. I quickly caught up to Dan Kirts who was running second, but I couldn't get around. He stuffed his 700 hydro just before this second heat and he was totally out of it. He never remembered running the race and some people on the bank tried to stop him because they knew he didn't know where he was.

He drove by instinct in that 350 race, and a wilder driver you never saw. He was all over the race course and I couldn't get around. I had the power, but I never knew which way he was going to go. I finished with a 3rd and a second overall, then we sold the rig complete with prop to Neil Bauknight. That was my last ride in a B hydro. Looking back I wish we would have raced it at least a couple of seasons.

I have a pic of Que Pasa somewhere with that right side pooched out, but I can't find it. I thought I posted it once before somewhere on BRF. Anyway, here's Neil getting ready to go out for that qualifying heat.

Jeff Lytle

02-15-2007, 10:22 AM

As I was reading about the way your boat was handling, I'm sure every driver who has aimed a hydro said the same thing...........Prop

Jeff Lytle

02-15-2007, 12:00 PM

Dieter put the motor together for me to run at the OB World Championships at Dayton.

I noticed on the pic the CD ignition without the scatter shield. This engine you got must have been one of the 1st generations with it then....true?

Dave_E71

02-15-2007, 05:42 PM

Yes, that was the pic I was talking about a while back. That is Mal swimming to the shore to his pits as Tom was directing him from the shore line. Man was Tom Harden mad that day.

I was looking through some pictures and found this one of Tom and Mal Harden and Pop Augustine

Not hi-jacking your thread Wayne, just taking it on a side trip

Dave

Master Oil Racing Team

02-16-2007, 08:19 AM

Hey Dave--Your side trip brings back lots of memories. Getting in the boat ready to go then some delay. Mal is going over and over in his head, the start. The first most critical part of racing. Once you get past that you can work everything else out as it comes. Pop seems to have his eye on the judges stand wondering when they're going to get the show on the road. And Tom? Who knows? He just wants to get back to the business of racing.:D Thanks for the pic.

Jeff--We got this motor before the accident in Auburn, Florida. A piece of the magneto went into Tommy Small, Jr.s chest seriously injuring him. That happened on March 18, 1979 about 5 months or so after the photo was taken. The Pro Commission had an emergency vote to put in a rule requiring the 360 degree guard. Dieter ordered aluminum cast guards that Elmer Grade had made pronto. He wouldn't sell or ship any more motors without them.

Jeff Lytle

02-16-2007, 09:11 AM

Dieter ordered aluminum cast guards that Elmer Grade had made pronto. He wouldn't sell or ship any more motors without them.

THAT'S RIGHT! I remember now. The 1st ones I saw other than welded up styles were on Elmer's engines.

Master Oil Racing Team

02-16-2007, 09:26 AM

..........I cheated Jeff. I looked up some correspondence from the time it happened.;) :D

ProHydroRacer

02-19-2007, 10:10 AM

Jeff--We got this motor before the accident in Auburn, Florida. A piece of the magneto went into Tommy Small, Jr.s chest seriously injuring him. That happened on March 18, 1979 about 5 months or so after the photo was taken. The Pro Commission had an emergency vote to put in a rule requiring the 360 degree guard. Dieter ordered aluminum cast guards that Elmer Grade had made pronto. He wouldn't sell or ship any more motors without them.

Well that is not exactly true. My next Konig500 engine came from Scott without the Guard. Mel Kirts made up a stainless steel one for me without charge. Scott told me the guard was not necessary.
Bill

Master Oil Racing Team

02-28-2007, 06:26 PM

ProHydroRacer

03-01-2007, 05:50 AM

I don't know when you got your 500 Bill, but a safety rule was passed requiring a guard on motors equipped with that ignition. Some day I will dig out all the correspondence, but I can't imagine Scott saying that. Jack Chance made ours of of regular steel. I don't recall any specifications regarding the guard other than 360 degree coverage. I seem to remember seeing one at one race that looked like a Hormel Ham can with the top and bottom lids cut out. Don't know if it passed.

I got the 500 after the 360 degree guard rule came about. Scott told me that Konig was not going to supply the guard. You have to remember I'm a Northern boy from Chicago by his eyes and didn't get treated the same as you Southern guys.

I had a similar problem with the flywheel nut. Remember a special nut was developed to keep the flywheel from moving. I knew about it 2 or 3 months before I got my new 500. Scott claimed it was not necessary. Of course the first time I ran the engine at the eastern divisionals the damn flywheel slip. I ended up chasing Scott around my boat swinging my wrench at him. He is lucky I didn't connect. For about two years he kept his distance from me.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-01-2007, 07:29 AM

My memory gets foggy about some of those things Bill. Dieter had taken the flywheel and cut it down for weight. The real problem came when a hole was drilled and tapped between the two existing holes on either side where the magnets were to accomodate a Yamato crank plate I understand. That was the weak point where the flywheel broke when the engine was revved up. As far as I know, that was the only one that failed.

Ray Hardy found out where the CD ignition system was manufactured and we started buying our "porkchops" directly from them in Massachusetts. Cutting out that trip from the U.S. to Germany and back saved us a ton of money.

I too had a similar problem with that nut, but it was at the Nationals. The last nationals I ran. Had a problem with the old flywheel and the new style fit too far down on the crank. There was no time to do any machine work prior to the race and the engine wouldn't rev good as there was no clearance between the flywheel and bearing, creating a bind. I finished 2nd behind Jerry Kirts.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-02-2007, 05:05 PM

Back to the 1977 Pro Nationals 725 hydro.

I didn't have a copy of the roster for the finals but Joe did and here it is.

Jerry Kirts--defending champ Indiana
Wayne Baldwin Texas
Rex Hall, Jr. Missouri
George Anderson, Jr. New Jersey
Howard Anderson, Jr. Washington
Trebor Billiter Florida
John Yale Connecticut
Don Wood West Virginia
Mel Kirts Indiana
Jeff Hutchins Florida
Steve Jones Texas
Rick Saver Minnesota

That's quite a spread of states. A collection of drivers from all around the country.

The current 1 2/3 mile record for 725 hydro at the time was held by Bob Rhoades at 86.042. Even though this class would allow motors up to 725 cc for a couple of year period, I think most in this class were still running legal 700cc motors. Bob set his record at Yelm. I don't think this course had the layout or the climate for records to be broken, but we tried. I used to have the times the various classes turned, but those sheets are lost.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-02-2007, 06:31 PM

I got a good start on the inside and was able to break free and turn Marshall's old "D" loose. I won by 10 seconds over John Yale and turned in the quickest heat of the nationals. It was 7 seconds quicker than the second fastest heat, which I presume was the second heat of 725 hydro. That is according to what few notes I have left.

Courtesy of Joe, results of the first heat.

1 Wayne Baldwin
2 John Yale
3 Trebor Billiter
4 Jerry Kirts
5 Howard Anderson

Master Oil Racing Team

03-07-2007, 08:34 AM

I told about the second heat some time ago on another thread, but in continuity of the story I will retell it.

As previously mentioned, it was a little hairy at the start with boats converging in slightly different lines toward the first turn. For that reason I chose the inside as I have been trapped in the middle and put in a squeeze before. It gets pretty scary. Especially when there is so much water you can't see.

The first heat was a clean start and I broke out easily as stated previously. The second heat, however, had some gun jumpers. We were all anxious. Some just came up early and pulled the rest of the field in. At the turn, the lead boats were very slow. Water covered everything as all the boats were there together and some were hunting for a place to go. I got so spooked I did something I never did before. I went into the infield. I wouldn't have tried it in my Marchettii because I would have had to have made too sharp a right to clear the bouys, but I was infinitely familiar with what I could get away with in my Butts SHADOWFAX.

As soon as I cleared the first bouy, I went into the infield to get out of the traffic and water. As I got close to the second bouy, I turned right and looped around the outside of it then went back inside. I can't remember if there were four or five bouys marking the wide turns. It seemed like we were only going 30 or 40 miles per hour and taking forever to get through that turn. It must have been faster than that, but it just seemed very very slow. I was just biding my time, taking it safe until we got lined out on the straight.

I kept a close eye on the boats too my right and there was still way too much water. No one was sliding out thus no opening inside because we were going too slow. And I think the outside boats must have kept the middle hemmed in because there was no one breaking out. So I just cruised along just inside the course, then looped around another bouy.

I don't know if that was legal, but at racing speeds it wouldn't have been possible to do without flipping so I guess it was no infraction as long as I passed all the bouys on the outside.

As I came out around the last bouy prior to the exit bouy I saw an opening on the inside. I hit the throttle and that "D" of Marshall's responded. I was a little too early though. Mel Kirts saw the same hole. He had been patiently working his way through the water somehow and he punched HIs Konig for a breakout. Had I waited a few seconds, we would have passed the last turn bouy and had a clear straight ahead. But I didn't like being in all that water and commotion. I saw the hole and went for it.

Mel must have either not seen me, or didn't think I could get to the hole that quickly because he ran into my boat. When I punched it, my sponsons lifted out of the water, then suddenly Mel dove out of a rooster tail from the right and ran under my boat. My right sponson hit his left arm and gave him a cut. With my sponson resting on the deck of his boat Mel was pulling me with him. My prop was out of the water. I had no steering. He took me along thirty or forty feet...maybe longer before the drag on my left sponson caused my boat to turn far enough left to be pulled off. I never saw Mel look at me. It was a slow motion thing and I kept turning the wheel right and left to get loose. When the drag pulled me loose, the boat spun out backwards. I pulled the crankrope from my pocket to restart it, but I think I got some water when I spun out.

Man was I bummed sitting in the turn watching them race. Mel finished high I think, but he was disqualifed for running into me. Blood streamed down the left side of his boat, but the injury never caused him to back off once. He was right up there with Howard Anderson and Jerry Kirts, but of those three Jerry was the only legal one. Howard was one of the gun jumpers.

Here are results of the second heat.

1. Jerry Kirts
2. Trebor Billiter
3. (Joe didn't have that one written down)
4. John Yale

Here is a pic of Mel Kirts

Master Oil Racing Team

03-07-2007, 01:39 PM

Results of 725 Nationals are

1 Jerry Kirts 4-1
2 Trebor Billiter 3-2
3 Wayne Baldwin 1-0

That's all Joe had. Here are some more pics of the drivers that ran that class

Next up is Kilo's DeLake 1977.

carl lewis

03-07-2007, 09:58 PM

Hey Wayne,
Was Hutch's boat one of those "coffin Craft's"? they used to run something very similar for the stock classes

Carl

Master Oil Racing Team

03-08-2007, 07:30 AM

I don't know Carl. I'm not familiar with them and I don't have a list of the boats that were run. But, it sure fits the description. But I'm not sure I would hang a D on the transom of anything named "Coffin".;) :D

Here's another one. I think Hutch may have been driving someone else's boat, which he did frequently.

John Schubert T*A*R*T

03-08-2007, 08:49 AM

I believe that Jeff & Joe Zolkoske, Jr. built that boat as they had started with an "A" stock & then other classes. The boats were called "Z" Craft.

Mike Schmidt

03-08-2007, 03:46 PM

How about "Rhino Crafts" ...I think the first ones were Jeff and Gene Apel (Jimmy's dad) creations. I remember them running 250-350-500-700-and 1100 at Hinton with two boats.

Michael D-1

dave dalton

03-08-2007, 04:52 PM

Hi Glen,Jeff ,Wayne..I"ve been following this thread for a long time now.I tought l should say welcome aboard to Glen & Henk...Been a long time since l seen either one of these guys...Hey Glenn...after 19 yrs ...VC73319 is back in my shop...also have my Rawsoncraft copy that l built in 1979. Hope to get running this summer for Rideau Ferry Regatta...3rd week in August...

Will post some OLD pics soon...DD

Master Oil Racing Team

03-08-2007, 05:17 PM

It's a great thing to be able to get back in touch with old friends Dave. I have had a lot of fun with this thread and glad it inspired Jeff to bring some of his compatriots on board. Good luck with your rig and we are looking forward to your photos.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-09-2007, 09:37 AM

We headed back to Texas on Monday 22nd, and it was about 3 days home. I don't remember if Harry and Jenny went all the way back with us. It seems we may have dropped them off in Dallas for a flight back to Germany.

Debbie and I had moved to Denton right after the Eastern Divisionals where she would resume her studies at TWU as a graduate student in nutrition. I found a lab in Denton where I could develope my negatives and write the Pro Nationals story for Powerboat. We didn't have time to go down and do much work on the motors after Hinton.

Basically everything was O.K. except for a sticky throttle on the 500 hydro. It was running good, I won both heats of 1100 hydro at 3/4 throttle and our 700 was still smokin'. So we didn't do any preparation prior to heading to Devil's Lake, Oregon for the kilos. It would be our second kilos to attend and once again we would go with our competition set ups with a conservative tuck for the long haul down the straights.

We didn't bother taking the 350 because you couldn't come close to Gerry Walin's record without a straightaway rig. You don't get any testing time at Kilos and we didn't want to sqaunder any runs. We already had the 700 kilo record so we would concentrate on 500 and 1100.

I flew home to get things ready for our trip and Tim and Ruth Butts came down to help and ride up to Oregon with us. The Kilos were scheduled for September 24 and 25. At that time the Butts' were tired of the cold weather in Michigan and found we had a perfect testing spot as they had come to be spending the last few New Years day testing with us. At that time they were still deciding whether to move down by us or up by Joe Rome near Houston.

We went up through West Texas, New Mexico, a drive by of Arizona, Utah, Idaho and into Oregon to the West Coast where we stayed at a Hotel built into the side of a cliff on the Pacific Ocean.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-09-2007, 05:12 PM

I already told parts of the story of the trip up and back previously. Had I known how this story was going to progress, I would have saved it for this thread. Suffice to say we passed through the low and high deserts, through the dry side of the Rockies and up and over the Cascades.

We didn't leave a spare minute for sightseeing. We drove, got gas, ate out of the 48 quart igloo, drove gassed up, ate and found a place to sleep. Three days worth.

The hotel must have had a beautiful view. We checked in at the lobby:confused: which was around the 9th or 10th floor. It was at ground level at the top of the cliff. Our rooms were somewhere around level 5 or 6 and the restaurant was the top floor above the lobby.

Only my Dad, Ruth Butts and myself went up to eat as Tim wasn't feeling well. It was too dark for a view of the Pacific Ocean and we were up before the sun to get down to DeLake for the drivers meeting. I do not remember being there for two full days, but if we were, we didn't lounge around overlooking the Pacific. I can remember nothing but being in a rush most of the time on the trip and for some reason I took very few pictures. Here are a few of them.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-22-2007, 08:03 AM

A couple of more pics. I don't know who they are. These are the only two boats I took pictures of running.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-23-2007, 09:38 AM

I was looking at some certificates from the DeLake Kilos before I continued and had to do some rethinking on what I remembered. It's kind of foggy, but here is what I can recall.

We were trying to set the kilo records on the fastest three PRO classes with competion set ups. We already held 700 hydro so we concentrated on 500 and 1100. Hu Entrop's 1100 hydro record at Devils Lake on September 20, 1964 was the one in our sights. It was within range of the speeds we ran with the 4 carb dual rotary valve Konig we bought from Marshall Grant. Although at 110.485, it was nowhere near the N.O.A record he set at Parker in 1960, I think it may have been the same historical boat and motor. Both records were with an Evinrude on an Entrop/McDonald cabover. The one at Parker was 122.979 in the N.O.A. X Hydro class. I think it was the fastest outboard in the world at the time. But the record we wanted was the APBA record set with that historical rig.

So our first two attempts were with the 1100 hydro on SHADOWFAX which had its maiden voyage on the record run in 700 hydro the previous year. We started with the Hopkins KD66 7 X 13 1/4" prop that we won the Nationals with a few weeks earlier. It bogged down as soon as the Butts broke over. I turned back to the pits and we changed props. Same thing. So we hurriedly put on another prop and made a run that averaged a sponson dragging 88 mph. When our time came back around, we tried a smaller prop and still ran 88. We could not figure out what the problem was.

The following morning I drew number one. I can't remember doing any internal work on the 1100 overnight, but we did decide to make our first run with the 500 hydro, as were weren't sure we would do any better with the 1100.

It was very foggy and the only way to make sure I was on course was to spot the bouys marking the way. On the first pass I came upon a large flock of seagulls floating on the water. I definitely did not want one to hit me in the face or chest, so I had to back off the throttle and duck down below the cowling. It was too late to change direction to avoid them so I just hoped if one hit the boat, nothing would happen. As it turned out I made it through OK and finished the second leg. I figured I blew it, but when I got to the pits one of the officials apologized saying that they didn't have all the electronic stuff ready yet and didn't get a reading. They wanted to know if I wanted to go right back out. Heck yeah!. So we picked up our second record with a competition set up.

Jim McKeans record was 104.045 set here at DeLake two years earlier with a Konig on a Byers. Our record of 105.270 was over the current world record but not by 1.0075 as required by UIM, but we were happy with an APBA record. Two down and one to go.

Instead of trying to up our 700 hydro record with D41994 we went back to Marshall's old dual rotary valve F. We figured the rings were weak and had to get the RPM's up. This motor had cast iron dykes rings and needed to be replaced fairly often. We Jacked the motor way up and put on the smallest prop we had for that motor. Records show it was a 6 7/8 X 12. The leading edge of both blades was 11", the center on one blade measured 10 7/8" while the other was 11 1/8". The trailing edge of both blades was 15". But I was not familiar with the stamp on it. I know Seebold and Hopkins markings, but I was not sure about this one so I made a phone call this morning to confirm my guess. This prop was marked K4 FH 1:1. Marshall Grant made many of his own props and Marshall confirmed this was one we got with that motor. It was not his best prop by far. This motor had a bad habit of breaking blades and he ran it deep with a 1:1 to help stop that problem. Here though, we had to get the rpm's up. According to my notes we made one pass at 103mph. According to the certificate we averaged 108 almost 109. We later discovered we had a broken ring on a top cylinder that must have broken just before starting the final lap of heat two at the nationals. It had started blubbering as I came out of the turn to start the final lap and I had thought it was just loading up because I was running 3/4 throttle.

So we gave up on the 1100hydro and put Marshall's old D on SHADOWFAX. By then it was too late. The wind had picked up too much and I couldn't pull the pipes and throttle all the way. Downwind I ran 110, but upwind I could only go 108. I ran it to the edge, but the Aerowing was flying way to high for full throttle and pipes.

Master Oil Racing Team

03-23-2007, 09:54 AM

The Certificate of the official speed of Konig D41994. Marshall told me this morning that this motor was like that Johnny Cash song building the car one part at a time. Everything was hand picked, measured and worked on one part at a time.:D

Master Oil Racing Team

03-26-2007, 07:01 AM

We left Devils Lake and did some sightseeing down the Pacific Highway. Seems like it was No. 5. It was kind of weird at sunset with the clouds below us on the Pacific like we were flying. I guess a lot of people fly above the clouds in this part of the world;) Maybe we were close to Big Sur.

We spent the night at the Sequoia National Forest. I think we were the only ones there. At least we were the only ones in the dining room that evening. We had been running solid for the past week and I couldn't sleep. I hadn't talked to Debbie since we left. There was no phone in the room so I went outside to a pay phone. The guy running the place said not to wander around outside and if you did go out, keep a close eye out for bear. That I did, while standing outside talking to Debbie. She was crying the whole time because she had never heard from me and didn't know what was going on. That's about the lowest I have ever felt. Even to this day I have a little pang about not bothering to call her when we got to Lincoln City.

The tree Tim Butts is standing by is the largest living thing in the world. It has thirty more years growth since that photo was taken. I wonder how many Aerowings it would make.;) :D

It was on the way back that Ruth Butts got sick from a hot dog we grilled under the hood. A trip to the VA hospital and several hours later we were back on the road.