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Smokey
01-18-2008, 08:23 PM
OK, I raced in these regions in the late 70s and mid 80s. The 70s were the heyday for OPC in MD/VA/NC. You could race at least every other weekend, sometimes more. We had as good a drivers here as anywhere in the country, just didn't get the press. From the early days, how about Ray Lumpkin, the Rogersons, Buck Thornton, Dave Casey, Bobby Drewery from VA; Rayner Blair, Beale Tilton from MD, the Speedmasters (such as Herb Gaskins, Bobby Alford, Harry Davis) from DC; some guy named Fountain from NC, and many others I failed to mention. Later on we had guys such as Roger Meekins, Mike Herrman, Lynn Nichols, Tabb Bridges, Ted Bravo, Rich Blauman, Harley Wilson, and again many others. Lets hear from some of you, maybe some stories of the days of Piney Point MD, Portsmouth VA, Belhaven NC and such. I miss those days. We will never see them again.

Danny Pigott
01-28-2008, 05:18 PM
I Raced At Belhaven NC In 74-75 At One Race It Raining An Fog Was On The Water An Almost Dark When We Ran U Class.

Smokey
01-29-2008, 08:50 PM
Danny, we never met but I saw you race in Miami at the 75 OPC nationals. Remember that one?

Ray Lumpkin
01-30-2008, 07:19 AM
Smokey your so right! Region 4 was the hot bed of OPC racing in the 70 & 80s. I should know I was OPC region 4 chairman for about 5 years in the 1970s. We had 25 to 30 races from April to Oct. A great record course at Portsmouth, Va and kilos at Toano, Va. I think I raced at Pointy Point, Md. more than any other place in my 15 years. Howard Swann would take all the races we would let him have starting at Mothers Day. It was a great course, pits and drew many boats at each race from regions 3 &4.
One of my many Piney Point memories, In the early 70s I was racing SH class with Henry Day. He always beat me. This day He did not show up at the race and I just knew I would win. Well on the 5 min warm up time I ran over something in the water and holed my McCall wooden boat and never got to start.
If anyone needs any information on region 4 races I have all the rule books and Propeller magazines, and compiled all records set, National Champions, Membership list,region officers and list of races for that time frame.nwlumpkin@yahoo.com

T2x
01-30-2008, 12:05 PM
Region 3 notables

John Sherlock, Bob Van Epps, Reese Delorenzo, Paul Mielke, Marty O'Neill, The Powell Brothers, Henry Green, George Linder, Willie Schaefer, Rick Adamzyk, Smitty, The Fantozzi Brothers, Ben O'Connor, Fred Hartmann, Ken Kalibat, Jim Caldwell, Howie Stein, Sonny Werner, Don Jenkinson, Dick Knarich.

John Schubert T*A*R*T
01-30-2008, 04:01 PM
Region 3 notables

John Sherlock, Bob Van Epps, Reese Delorenzo, Paul Mielke, Marty O'Neill, The Powell Brothers, Henry Green, George Linder, Willie Schaefer, Rick Adamzyk, Smitty, The Fantozzi Brothers, Ben O'Connor, Fred Hartmann, Ken Kalibat, Jim Caldwell, Howie Stein, Sonny Werner, Don Jenkinson, Dick Knarich.

I guess you forgot about me, as when I started driving for OMC I resided in Region 3

Beale Tilton
01-30-2008, 05:50 PM
Let's not forget Bob Roberts and Bill Edwards. National High Point Champions in U and S classes OPC.

T2x
01-31-2008, 06:03 AM
I guess you forgot about me, as when I started driving for OMC I resided in Region 3

I always thought of you as a Region 3 Hydro guy with Lostumbo, ODea, etc.... before you moved west and "upgraded" to OPC......:p

But I did leave out Geoff Briggs...........:D.

T2x

John Schubert T*A*R*T
01-31-2008, 06:11 AM
I always thought of you as a Region 3 Hydro guy with Lostumbo, ODea, etc.... before you moved west and "upgraded" to OPC......:p

But I did leave out Geoff Briggs...........:D.

T2x

Actually, I didn't go to work for OMC & move to Nebraska(Cushman location) until 1972. I started driving for them in 1970. Won the Marathon nationals in "S" class in 1970 at Smith Mountain, VA & again in Miami in 1971. Finished 3rd to Billy Seebold & Earl Bentz in Washington, NC in 1973, but by then I was living in NE. Although Geoff, my co-driver in Paris, where we nearly won (threw rod) in 1971, was from Region 7, Lake Forest, IL but I'm willing to claim him & his brother Tim as region 3'ers.

I like the upgrader statement!!

Ray Lumpkin
01-31-2008, 07:17 AM
John I was at all 3 of those races! See how active region 4 was, Smith Mountain Lake, Va., Washington, N. C. Lets here hear stories from Portsmouth, Va Bushwood, Md Tall Timers Md. Ables warf, Md. Wilson ,N. C. Plymouth, N. C. Hyco Lake, Va. Tonao, Va. Burgess, Va. Hampton, Va. King & Queen, Va. West Point, Va. Leonardtown, Md. Williamburg, Va. Huddleston, Va. Clarkes Landing, Md. Ables, Md. Hollywood, Md. Naylors Beach, Va. Winsor, N. C. I can go on!! 1971 was our high point we had 21 region races that year.We had over 5 pages of records set in region 4. In the mid 70s region 4 had over 60 racing members. Ha the good old days!!

T2x
01-31-2008, 10:16 AM
Actually, I didn't go to work for OMC & move to Nebraska(Cushman location) until 1972. I started driving for them in 1970. Won the Marathon nationals in "S" class in 1970 at Smith Mountain, VA & again in Miami in 1971. Finished 3rd to Billy Seebold & Earl Bentz in Washington, NC in 1973, but by then I was living in NE. Although Geoff, my co-driver in Paris, where we nearly won (threw rod) in 1971, was from Region 7, Lake Forest, IL but I'm willing to claim him & his brother Tim as region 3'ers.

I like the upgrader statement!!

I always thought that Geoff lived in Westhampton, NY, where his boat yard was and Tim lived in Lake Forest......... But I could be wrong.

In any event, did you run in any Region 3 OPC races, or just hob nob with the "big shots" at the National events? :D:D:D

John Schubert T*A*R*T
01-31-2008, 02:36 PM
I always thought that Geoff lived in Westhampton, NY, where his boat yard was and Tim lived in Lake Forest......... But I could be wrong.

In any event, did you run in any Region 3 OPC races, or just hob nob with the "big shots" at the National events? :D:D:D

Actually there were sevral races I & the T*A*R*T team raced at out East. Region 1, Bridgeport, CT, rougher then ****, I actually stuffed my McDonald & resurfaced & finished . We raced some sort of Championship run by John Valcohvic at Kingston, NY, Region 2 which I won, and we raced a min-marathon at Greenwood Lake, Region 3 where I grew up with S.O. when we were the Mercury Racing Club, with the stock outboards.

The Brigg's Long Island home was in Eashampton where Geoff's marina is located. However, they actually lived in Lake Forest until Geoff decided he wanted to on a marine business & he purchased the Johnson dealer in Easthampton. Not totally sure about when but was the late 70's I think.

T2x
01-31-2008, 03:03 PM
Actually there were sevral races I & the T*A*R*T team raced at out East. Region 1, Bridgeport, CT, rougher then ****, I actually stuffed my McDonald & resurfaced & finished . We raced some sort of Championship run by John Valcohvic at Kingston, NY, Region 2 which I won, and we raced a min-marathon at Greenwood Lake, Region 3 where I grew up with S.O. when we were the Mercury Racing Club, with the stock outboards.

The Brigg's Long Island home was in Eashampton where Geoff's marina is located. However, they actually lived in Lake Forest until Geoff decided he wanted to on a marine business & he purchased the Johnson dealer in Easthampton. Not totally sure about when but was the late 70's I think.


I recall a business trip with Lostumbo in St Louis, and I recall he visited you there. Am I hallucinating?

T2x

John Schubert T*A*R*T
01-31-2008, 03:08 PM
I recall a business trip with Lostumbo in St Louis, and I recall he visited you there. Am I hallucinating?

T2x

Think so. Never lived in St. Louis, but did live somewhat north of there in Galesburg, IL about 3 1/2 hrs. north. I have somewhat of a recollection that Don visited, but just can't remeber where or when.

Smokey
02-01-2008, 08:33 PM
It was 1976 or 77. OMC sent Jimbo McConnel, Barry Woods and Fred Hauenstein to Portsmouth to run on our record course. Water was rough on Saturday morning, didn't look good for records. Shortly after the driver's meeting, Jimbo received word that his father had passed away. He asked to run his class first, as he was going to leave immediately. Of course, we concurred. He ran one of the finest heats seen me of the worst water we could have had and not called the race. He took a victory lap for his father, came in, and left for the airport. A class act, and a truly nice guy.

Ray Lumpkin
02-02-2008, 07:38 AM
Smokey, Jimbo set a record that day of 98.901 driving an Evinrude Molinari in Mod U class. The date was 7-02-78. I was the time rep. for Portsmouths record course.
Region 4 had 224 records set between 1963 and 1993. Thats hour records , 5 mile, kilo, and some lap records. Sad to say there has been little or no OPC racing since the 1990s.
Here are some pictures from region 4 good old days.

tthibodaux
02-02-2008, 08:33 AM
Hey if I can ask a goofy question here, is that a 99 cube inline on the boats in the last two pics? Thats just almost crazy to think of all that power on such a small boat!

Ray Lumpkin
02-02-2008, 09:29 AM
Tim
Yes the last two pictures are 99.9 cu- 6 cylinder Mercs. The red and white McCall boat has 6 cylinder 1960 80hp Merc. I race this in the Sport H class. The other is John McCall in a McCall kilo boat with a 100 BP race engine. John record was in the SI class at 83.282 MPH in 9-29-1968 set in Toano , Va.

tthibodaux
02-02-2008, 10:54 AM
Tim
Yes the last two pictures are 99.9 cu- 6 cylinder Mercs. The red and white McCall boat has 6 cylinder 1960 80hp Merc. I race this in the Sport H class. The other is John McCall in a McCall kilo boat with a 100 BP race engine. John record was in the SI class at 83.282 MPH in 9-29-1968 set in Toano , Va.Gosh!! That just seems like so much way to much motor for a knee rider! I've raced against a 6cyl. hydro in the Super E class before but I don't think it was the 99 cube motor and it was on a small racing mid and not that big tall fishing looking mid. What is that a 15in?

JWTjr.
02-02-2008, 02:10 PM
Lots of fun racing in the early-mid 80s in Region 4/5 as well as others. I have fond memories...Roger Meekins, Tabb Bridges, Gary Schiel, Dave Viau, Bill Browne, Scott Nelson (tragically killed later on crossing the street), Lynn Nichols, Freddy Hartmann, Bill Slivey, Mike Herrmann, John Riegor, Homer Greene, Jerry Neely, Harley Wilson, Ted Bravo, Kevin Barnett, I can't think offhand of any more names but there were quite a few more...I had so much fun racing then, wish it was the same now.

JT

Mark75H
02-02-2008, 02:22 PM
Gosh!! That just seems like so much way to much motor for a knee rider! I've raced against a 6cyl. hydro in the Super E class before but I don't think it was the 99 cube motor and it was on a small racing mid and not that big tall fishing looking mid. What is that a 15in?

Tim, you are right. The big motor in Super E is 59 cubes.
The motor on McCall's boat is technically a 15 inch, but it is a "BP" which was a weird one off mid and lower ... a full gearshift Super Speedmaster. The center of the bullet is basically the same height as a regular fishing motor, but it is actually heavier than a fishing motor or Speedmaster equipped motor. The bullet size is in between the two.

Judging by how well the boat floats that motor, I'd say it looks fine to me :)

Mark75H
02-02-2008, 02:30 PM
Ray, those are great pictures ... we gotta get you set up with a scanner. If Ron can do it, you can too! :)

Who is driving the 790 McCall?

We want to see more pictures like these!

Ray Lumpkin
02-02-2008, 03:14 PM
Tim
All the 6 cylinders were 15 inch short shaft. Stock centers and or BP style with stock units and super speedmaster units. In 1970 Mercury Twister was raced on a neal down boat. 6 carb engine is my Mod 90 engine.

Mark75H
02-02-2008, 05:12 PM
Tim, Ray has shown us still another special Merc race motor and rare racing lower unit ... the "Red Stripe" Twister with the optional "MC-1" Super Speedmaster. The MC-1 unit is a little stronger and larger than a regular Super Speedmaster.

Smokey
02-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Ray, you will probably attest to this....If you ran good in Region 4 you could run good anywhere in the country. Not only did we have good drivers but ran often enough to get some good seat time in competion. If only we had had some funds...we would pile up in a cheap hotel room or local racer's spare room just to save money for gas. But we had as much fun as any of the IOGP or PROP high $ teams. BTW, how about Jim Caldwell? Last I heard of him was years ago when he worked for Fountain. Get out some more of the old pictures for us! :rolleyes: Those were the days!

Ray Lumpkin
02-03-2008, 06:47 AM
Smokey
Your right again!! But we did have as much as any boat race club. My good friend Jim Caldwell, he was a good racer with factory connections. He ran Mod 50, SST SST120. Heres a region 4 story. Jim and I both showed up in Piney Point, Md and happen to park next to each other in the pitts. We both had broken the skeg off our super speedmaster units. The other drivers thought we had found some type speed secret. The secert was when you at the end of the straight at about 100mph you couldnt turn, that will get your attention quick.
Smokey and Mark 75 I will get some pictures out tomorrow. Glad someone elise would like to look at them, I got 15 years worth.

John Schubert T*A*R*T
02-03-2008, 08:10 AM
Smokey
Your right again!! But we did have as much as any boat race club. My good friend Jim Caldwell, he was a good racer with factory connections. He ran Mod 50, SST SST120. Heres a region 4 story. Jim and I both showed up in Piney Point, Md and happen to park next to each other in the pitts. We both had broken the skeg off our super speedmaster units. The other drivers thought we had found some type speed secret. The secert was when you at the end of the straight at about 100mph you couldnt turn, that will get your attention quick.
Smokey and Mark 75 I will get some pictures out tomorrow. Glad someone elise would like to look at them, I got 15 years worth.

Had a conversation with JIm not too long ago. At that time he had his own company I believe in the fringes of the marine industry. Don't recall for sure where e is/was located, out east perhaps NC, as that was where I was working at the time.

tthibodaux
02-03-2008, 11:04 AM
I don't guess I'm a amazed at the hp as I am the weight of that thing on such a little boat. I know that top heavy is a big deal in a knee rider. This is good stuff guys, thanks for the history lesson!!:)

Mark75H
02-03-2008, 12:18 PM
Tim, you are correct about the top heavy issue on a hydro, but it doesn't take much additional width to tame them. On my 12 ft 36 inch wide hydro a 12 inch tower (15 inches to the propshaft) is a problem, but with a boat just a little wider like my Zorkan runabout or DeSilva tunnel hull, you can't feel it is there at 15 inches

Ted March
02-03-2008, 07:26 PM
Beale Tilton, Bill Rowell, Herb Payne and Bill Cochran. Not as well known as some of the drivers mentioned above as they ran the lower classes.

And Beale Tilton and Bill Edwards built the E&T boats.

Records by these drivers noted below

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 08:20 AM
Tim you asked about the 790 boat. It was a McCall UI class driven by Bobby Drewey. Bobby was a region 4 driver that set 20 records and won 7 Nation titles between 1963 and 1973.His boats were owned by Paul Angel of Capitol Marine in Williamsbury Va. By the way I was told Paul in his 80s now and still repairing motors at his home to stay active. I am attaching some more region 4 pictures. Does anyone know theses boats?

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 08:29 AM
Ted
The 4 drivers you list were great region 4 drivers as you were also. E & T tunnels were built in southern Maryland and were great boats in that they would run great with a stock (big foot unit) or a super speedmaster as well. These boats won many many race and set some records too. I have the last E & T tunnel built in 1974. I found it in Ohio and had it brought back in region 4. Beale & Bill have both visted me and look at their last boat.

Ted March
02-04-2008, 08:33 AM
FJ 811 is Bobby Drewry on his 79+ FJ kilo run at Toano, VA in 1968.

Thanks Ray. Beale mentioned he visited you this past summer and had a great time.

Great cause you support in Lukemia and Lymphnomia.

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 08:46 AM
Ted
Bobby set 3 kilo records in 1968 SE, SG, SH. But none at 79+. Ernest Lawreence set a UI record at 79.217?
Ray

Ted March
02-04-2008, 09:28 AM
Ray,

Below is a page from the 1974 APBA rule book. Hope you can read it.

Bobby set the FI record at 67.394 in FI in 1968 with FI 811.

Set the FJ record at 79.917 in 1970 running the number 790. I wasn't there in 1970 but I remember Bobby running FJ 811 in 1968 or 1969 at 79+. My guess it was the same short deck Switzer

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 09:48 AM
Thanks Ted!! My 1971 rule book shows the FJ speed at 79.441. Anyway he was fast. I got more pictures. Lets hear from region 4 members. Any body know any of these boats or people??

Mark75H
02-04-2008, 11:21 AM
Ray, I hope you have noticed there have been over 700 views of your thread. People are very interested in it. Please continue! :):):)

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Thank you Sam, no I didnt notice all the hits. Above pictures. #1-Bill Petty (twin engine) and Our own Beale Tilton at Hyco Lake 1070. #2- World famous Buck Thronton ( yes he started in vee bottoms, this is a FJ Checkmate/Merc.#3- and 4 McCall/Merc Twister owned and driven by Bill Rowell (southern Maryland). #5- Jimbo at Hayco Lake 1970, the goat boat. #6 Unknown to me, taken in southern Maryland about 1970. #7- We all know and love Reggie #76. #8 The other half of E&T Marine Bill Edwards, Chrysler/? better known then as the Dennis Point mentace. #9-Bobby Dreweys boat at Pintery point, Md. about 1970.

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 12:59 PM
Thank you John! Reminds me John Sherlock came to many region 4 races. Great looking and running boats, a class act. John enjoyed racing you in SST120, I never did get to see the front of your boat. Post a picture so I can see the front!!

MN1
02-04-2008, 01:04 PM
Ray,
Your photo of Jimbo in the Goat Boat is very interesting. It has a front wing controlled by a Keller hand throttle. I had never seen Jimbo's boat with this before. A very unique photo!!
Mark

Mark75H
02-04-2008, 01:19 PM
Thanks for pointing that out Mark! I couldn't figure out what that was. At first it looked like crash damage until I looked closer.

Ray Lumpkin
02-04-2008, 02:05 PM
Mn1, since you are tunnel boat builder I used a similar flap in the tunnel of my McCall tunnel. It reduced the amount of air coming into the tunnel. I used it running into the wind, drop the flap and sucked the boat down to the water and let you run hard into the wind. It was powered by a station wagon rear window motor controlled from a switch on the steering wheel. Sorry I dont have a picture of that.
Mark 75, how do I find how many hits on the BRF post? Where do I look?

Mark75H
02-04-2008, 02:30 PM
Ray, you just go to the forum that the thread is posted in where you can see the other threads. In this case, the Outboard History (http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10) forum. You can get to it from each page of the thread by looking at the top of the page for the words Outboard History (http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10) in blue with a line under it, just above where you see this thread's title (Region 3/4/5 OPC notables). After you are on that forum's page you will see the names of the threads on the left. (If the thread you are interested in has not been updated recently, you will have to scroll down the page or click on another less recent page to find it.) Follow across to the right you see who the last responder to the thread was, the number of replies and the number of views. Region 3/4/5 notables has over 800 views now! :)

Smokey
02-04-2008, 08:34 PM
OUTBOARD HISTORY....

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r282/JohnSVintage/04.jpg

Bill Slivey (blond), Mike Herrman (Lowenbrau), Sherlock, Kenny Curtis (afro and white socks). I think my memory is still clear. How about it, Ray?

T2x
02-05-2008, 08:36 AM
By the way..... The guy in the GeeChee on the trailer...is Earl Bentz.

T2x

Ray Lumpkin
02-05-2008, 08:47 AM
Thank you Sam I found the count. And thank you John, now I see the front of your boat! In Johns pictures are Bill Slivey-Ui class, Mike Herrman--SE Class. On the right of one picture I see Clarencer Archer-UI class.
Since this site has so many hits I want to give Leukemia a plug.This boat I just finished 2 months ago to bring awareness to Leukemia! I will post more region 4 pictures this afternoon.

Ray Lumpkin
02-05-2008, 08:51 AM
Leukemia Pictures

Ted March
02-05-2008, 09:10 AM
Again Ray, a great cause.

Keep the pictures coming.

John Shrlock - good stuff. Keep posting

Thanks.

Ray Lumpkin
02-05-2008, 10:45 AM
Thank you Ted!!
More region 4 pictures. Does anyone know these boats?

Beale Tilton
02-05-2008, 12:14 PM
Bill Slivey (blond), Mike Herrman (Lowenbrau), Sherlock, Kenny Curtis (afro and white socks). I think my memory is still clear. How about it, Ray?

White socks and afro is Clarence Archer from DC

Ray Lumpkin
02-06-2008, 07:26 AM
Smokey remember this. At Portsmouth, Va one year you asked me to drive your Hydrostream to make a class ( I think it was SST140) for the record course. Well I have raced tunnels and flat bottoms and driven offshore boats . I had driven vee bottoms like switzrers and Allisions but never a Hydrostream. Well I started and ran one lap and pulled to the infield. I just could not get that thing to hang. I gave you and everyone a good laugh.
I am posting a picture of my Sport H class McCall/Mercury boat. My one claim to fame I set a world record with that H boat at the great Portsmouth record course.
Am posting some other pictures, lets see if anyone knows these boats.

John Schubert T*A*R*T
02-06-2008, 09:02 AM
Pic No. 6...Besides the no. 35, the trailer gives away Barry Woods boat. Is the hull maybe "Marathon'? That boat in the background might be Johnny Sanders and I'm wondering if that's Jack Leek on the left with his back to the camera. It's a good thing you took the time to take the pictures back then Ray.

Yes, that is Leek. Barry Woods boat is a Scotti pickle. Although I can't see all of the boat behind Barry's, you can see 19, which is a dead giveaway that it's Jimbo's, probably also a Scotti as I'm not sure if there was a V-6 "Goat Boat".

John Schubert T*A*R*T
02-06-2008, 09:04 AM
Pic No. 6...Besides the no. 35, the trailer gives away Barry Woods boat. Is the hull maybe "Marathon'? That boat in the background might be Johnny Sanders and I'm wondering if that's Jack Leek on the left with his back to the camera. It's a good thing you took the time to take the pictures back then Ray.

Wayne, just took another look at the picture, could be 195, Posey or 196 Sanders, & it's definitely a Scotti also.

Master Oil Racing Team
02-06-2008, 09:13 AM
John...Posey is 197, but that's OK. When I first saw 35 I thought Bobby Witt, but then remembered he was 36. All were formidable drivers.

John Schubert T*A*R*T
02-06-2008, 09:17 AM
John...Posey is 197, but that's OK. When I first saw 35 I thought Bobby Witt, but then remembered he was 36. All were formidable drivers.

Yup, you are correct. I stand corrected. Bob Witt co-drove in Paris with Geoff Briggs in 1972 when Art Kennedy co-drove with me. Both Bob & Michael had #36. I built Mike's SST60 engine which he won a major, maybe UIM World or N.A. championship with in Guntersville.

brichter
02-06-2008, 09:59 AM
[QUOTE=Beale Tilton;49346]405 is Ray Woods U boat. Don't remember the manufacture, but he bought it from OMC.
QUOTE]

Ray Woods' #405 with the steep sides looks like an Aquarod; plans for them were in Mechanix illustrated.

I haven't read any mention of Herb Goskins or Rudy Foote. They ran in region 4 or 5 and came out to a few region 7 races. Does anyone have pics of their boats?

Ray Lumpkin
02-06-2008, 10:29 AM
Its great to pick out the big drivers like Schuert,Posey,Jimbo, Reggie, Seabold, Thronton and many others but its the little guys like Herb Gaskins, Rudy Foote, Tommy Bailey, Glen Barsto,Kenneth Curtis, and many many more that was the back bone of racing. I remember Herb very well. He came to race at Piney Point, Maryland on Saturday and turned the SJ boat over . The next day Sunday he was right back to race again. Now thats the love of boat racing!!

Master Oil Racing Team
02-06-2008, 11:18 AM
You're absolutely right Ray. That's why I am so glad I took so many pit pictures, and yours too demonstrate that point. There are so many people in the pits that maybe didn't run up front and didn't get their pictures in the newspapers and magazines, but they are the heart of racing. Without them, racing could not be possible. Many of the guys that ran in the pack turned to officiating and handling other racing support functions after they gave up the cockpit. The pit pictures bring back lots of memories of our friends.

Beale Tilton
02-06-2008, 01:34 PM
Ray's boat was not an Aquarod. He bought it direct from OMC as a used team boat and if I heard the manufacture's name I would recognize it.

Beale Tilton
02-06-2008, 01:42 PM
Don't think that's Rayners boat Smokey. His were blue and white. Not even sure it's an Allison.
Ray I don't remember you being that skinny.
The Scat Craft with the Chysler (782) is Stue Maggard, a gas storage tank welder from NJ. Stue is also in the famous multiple blew over picture from Miami in a different boat.
Ray, the pictures with rough water and v bottoms looks like two people in the boats and also looks like the Miami Marine Statium. What class did we run that required two in the boat for close course racing?

Ray Lumpkin
02-06-2008, 02:15 PM
John is correct. FS class required 2 people in the boat when the class was started. Didnt last long . Changed to VP, then Mod VP. APBA was allways changing, and I think thats why we lost so many drivers. Remember the engine freeze. I helped get that through in some classes, like SE and the class grew. Not everyone could or wanted to buy new engines each year. Owell more region 4 pictures tomorrow, the way it was!!

kevin beaulier
02-06-2008, 02:17 PM
Yes, that is Leek. Barry Woods boat is a Scotti pickle. Although I can't see all of the boat behind Barry's, you can see 19, which is a dead giveaway that it's Jimbo's, probably also a Scotti as I'm not sure if there was a V-6 "Goat Boat".

I could be wrong but I think Barry's boat is a Seebold. The rear cowling is alot taller than a Scotti.

MN1
02-06-2008, 03:33 PM
I could be wrong but I think Barry's boat is a Seebold. The rear cowling is alot taller than a Scotti.

Looks like a Seebold to me too. 1975 - 1976 vintage.
Mark N

John Schubert T*A*R*T
02-06-2008, 04:26 PM
I could be wrong but I think Barry's boat is a Seebold. The rear cowling is alot taller than a Scotti.

Although Barry & Billy were & still are good friends, this was during the period when Billy had an iron clad contract with Mercury that prohibited selling boats to a competing factory. The only exception was when the Bill Muncey "Wide World of Boat Racing" was run in the Miami Marine stadium with identical Seebold with Evinrude 49 cube SE rigs were run. At the boat plant Bob "Goat" Nagode & Jimbo were always making rear cowlings of different designs, so a Seebold style cowling could of been created.

Smokey
02-06-2008, 06:58 PM
John is correct. FS class required 2 people in the boat when the class was started. Didnt last long . Changed to VP, then Mod VP. APBA was allways changing, and I think thats why we lost so many drivers. Remember the engine freeze. I helped get that through in some classes, like SE and the class grew. Not everyone could or wanted to buy new engines each year. Owell more region 4 pictures tomorrow, the way it was!!
This was a great idea for a class. We had three FS racers from Portsmouth (Bobby Boose, Bert Fary, and Rabbit Anderson) that raced every regatta. On the off weekends we would put coolers and skis in the boats and go down the canal cruising. Pipkorn took the class to heart and pushed the Ventura in it. Watching them run in Miami at the 75 Nats made me go out and buy mine. Ray, I remember that weekend that you ran mine. I was thrilled to have you run it (you were something of an icon to us newbies). Do you remember all the grief you gave me about the polished lower unit at inspection? I at every race to paint it before the next one.:D
Beale, you are right about the Allison (?). I thought about it after I posted. Did you ever see the 16' Allison I redid for Rayner?

Beale Tilton
02-06-2008, 09:49 PM
Smokey,
A couple of years ago while vacationing in Md. I stoped in Rayner's store. He was walking away from me when I entered. He caught a glimps of me, did an about face, said come on and walked out of the store. Without saying anything else we got into his SUV and headed out. Next stop was his garage. You might say he is real proud of that Allison. Did he ever find an XS engine?

Ron Hill
02-06-2008, 11:19 PM
Hey, Barry Woods ain't from Regions 3,4 or 5.... He'r from Region 10...

I was talking to Margarite Woods at Jack Leek's Memorial Service in Tacoma, Washington, last spring.

Barry and Margarite are no longer in the Concrete Coring Business (CCC)...Barry fly a 93 million dollar airplane for corporate people.

Barry and I talked on the phone, has he had just landed, but was going to be too late for for the memorial. Margarite had a bunch of pictures of Barry...I had looked at one picture and could not figure out what boat it was....I asked Tommy Posey, who was at the service, what boat it was and he said, "Seebold." When Barry and I were talking on the phone, I asked about the Seebold...

Barry told me he'd bought one from Billy and by Billy and Barry working together, they got Garbrecht (Gary was head of Mercury Racing) to tie Billy up with an exclusive contract...to build boats only for Mercury..Barry told me he'd done very well with the boat, I think at Miami where that picture was taken...

I had a picture of that boat in my hand, yesterday, but I think I put it in a storage box...

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4226&highlight=Barry+Woods

Barry says he rigged this Seebold in Seebold's garage...Then, went out an broke the record...Garbrecht, decide, he'd better OWN Seebold, so, he bought him...and Ended Evinrudes on Seebold Boats...


Found them:

1. Barry in the Seebold at Eufaula, Alabama, 1975...1st Place Marathon Nationals photo by Mary Gagen....Miami, Florida...Chic Gagen's wife???

2. August 1975, Miami Closed Course Nationals, Barry and Jimbo....Doesn't say who took the picture or what place Barry got, but he was leading Jimbo...

3. #35 Barry running the Rotary on a Scotti Hull

4. Barry in a Molinari???? I don't know what boat or where...

Funny how things work. In California we had this class called TP (Tunnel Pleasure) Two in the boat 5 inches below the bottom...APBA took the rules changed it to FS (V Bottoms) then wondered why it never got very popular....(OPC lost sight of FUN, FAMILY and Friends...they wanted things to be professional...as a result, I feel OPC is worse for the wear....).

T2x
02-07-2008, 06:28 AM
459 was the number for Rick Adamczyk. Rick lived accross from O'Niels boat yard who sold Checkmate Boats. Marty O'Niel also ran a Checkmate Tunnel,, name was "Hot Tuna".

Wasn't "Hot Tuna" Dick Fantozzi's boat? Sadly Dickie was taken at a very early age by Cancer or he would have had a great career. His brother, Tommy, is still alive and kicking and keeping the faith.

I know Marty O'Neill jr. was injured testing in a Checkmate tunnel and lost his spleen as a result. I recall that being a black hull too. Sadly Marty also passed away at a very young age (under 40) and he had a lot of problems in the years prior to his passing. It seems many of the guys I started with on Long Island like Marty Jr. and Sr., Dickie Fantozzi, and Ken Kalibat all passed away prematurely. It makes you thankful that we are still around to enjoy the remaining friends we've kept.

My life is a lot better for having known them and the survivors of that era like George Linder, Gene Bianco, Sonny Werner, Ben O'Connor, Reese Di Lorenzo, Bob Van Epps, Dick Knarich, and, the seemingly ageless, John Sherlock. I'm proud to call them all friends..... and the highest compliment I know...real boat racers.

Amen.

T2x

T2x
02-07-2008, 08:16 AM
Rich, I have your money and then I don't,, seems each time I put it aside something comes along that I can't live without !!!!!:rolleyes:
John

PS.. Did I just know something you did not ????? :eek: :D

Don't worry about the money... you may have to finish the Wing the night before Chattahoochie....:D

Now I'm totally confused because Dickie Fantozzi's last two SJ boats, which he ran after Marty stepped up to the Marlboro Moli.......,were called "Hot Tuna". Marty ran the Checkmate tunnels during the 2-3 years I was living in Texas and Arkansas, and I was away from the East coast. Marty and Dickie were best friends and co drove at a couple of races...Maybe Dickie used the name or maybe it was his in the first place...?

Rich

Ray Lumpkin
02-07-2008, 08:33 AM
Smokey did you ever paint that unit?? I also saw Rayners Allison at his home last year, great job!!
John I though you were a region 4 driver, saw you every week end. You just couldnt stay home and let me win a race now & then. Looking back we had some fun weekends. And yes you are correct the black Checkmate tunnel was Rick Adanczk at Pointy Point.
OK! Anyone know any of these old race boat pictures??

T2x
02-07-2008, 10:20 AM
Speaking of Seebold/OMC's that 391 boat sure looks like a Seebold and the motor ain't a Merc.

T2x

Ron Hill
02-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Barry Woods said it was after the 1975 Closed Course nationals that Mercury signed Billy to a contract....

That Sport E with the kneeler... I don't think that is John Rinker, but John did have a Sport E like that at the Dayton OPC Nationals, 1976. John ran second the first heat and I told him to get a better start, and get on the inside.....I was pitting for John. Well, he blew over just about the first turn, while leading and broke his back.

Which, this accident got him out of the production end of building Rinker boats and into R and D....Rinker benefited greatly from this move...at least that is what Lori Rinker told me...

F-12
02-07-2008, 12:07 PM
Seeing the kneeler it reminded me of Jeff Titus...........anyone mention him yet?

Skoontz
02-07-2008, 12:33 PM
or does the GP on the 391 boat have studs hanging under the exhaust housing with no gear foot attached?

Ray Lumpkin
02-07-2008, 01:00 PM
Ron
My 5th picture is a SE boat. Its a DelCraft/Evinrude. We didnt see any Delcraft boats on the east coast. It was not competeve with the McCalls in E class at the time. Owner & Driver was Danny Waltrip, Williamsburg, Va.

Mark75H
02-07-2008, 01:42 PM
or does the GP on the 391 boat have studs hanging under the exhaust housing with no gear foot attached?Its there, just hard to see because its painted black. What looks like studs are the scallops around the studs

RogerH
02-07-2008, 05:09 PM
John, you posted a picture of the O'Berry # 86 Molinari. Might you have a photo of their #60 boat? I am about to start the restoration of the #60 and would like to know anything I can about it. The #60 boat was driven by Randy Gore with the owner listed as Philip O'Berry. I believe that Rudy Foote may have driven the #86 boat for the O'Berry's. He did drive the #189 Velden as well. John Hervat painted the boats.
I still have not been able to talk with anyone that has first hand information about the #60 Molinari which ran a Johnson RS from Solomons Maryland where the O'Berry's Marine was located. - Thanks for any help.
Roger

F-12
02-07-2008, 05:18 PM
I went to high school with Randy and lost touch soon after we graduated. I know his wife (or x-wife) Doreen is a dealer out in Las Vegas. I have tried to contact her as she was one of my favorite people down in Naples/Golden Gate, but she has been too busy to communicate with me. If you Google 'Doreen Gore' you might be able to get some info on this one................

Ray Lumpkin
02-08-2008, 07:50 AM
Roger
I remember the 189 Veldon that Ruddy drove, I think it was a UI class, very strong runner. I think Ruddy Foote works at the US post office in Solmonds, Md.And now some more small time racing pictures in region 4 and region 4 boats.

Smokey
02-08-2008, 11:52 AM
My good friend Bobby Boose, loaned him my van to go to Eufaula that year. Now I actually know he went! :D Boat was, I think, a McCall U boat, owned by Dave Casey and/or Lee McGlaughin (sp?). Too heavy for SJ but he had a blast with it. He converted a potato chip cube van to a tow truck with a shop area and a sleeper sofa, painted to match the boat. We thought we had a NASCAR hauler! Bobby passed in 89 from diabetes complications. We had great times together.

brichter
02-08-2008, 12:25 PM
I believe that is Bill Travis...I know he ran a Seebold/Johnson in SST with a similar paint scheme.....I don't remember the number for sure.....Can anyone verify?
I think he was from Region 8.

John Schubert T*A*R*T
02-08-2008, 01:08 PM
I believe that is Bill Travis...I know he ran a Seebold/Johnson in SST with a similar paint scheme.....I don't remember the number for sure.....Can anyone verify?
I think he was from Region 8.

Bill, I believe that you are correct. Early on he had a SidSon tunnel, but very well cold have gone to a Seebold.

HRTV
02-09-2008, 02:16 PM
Roger
I remember the 189 Veldon that Ruddy drove, I think it was a UI class, very strong runner. I think Ruddy Foote works at the US post office in Solmonds, Md.And now some more small time racing pictures in region 4 and region 4 boats.

Hey Ray,

Danny here I have tons of photos I took back in the day :) hey have you spoken with Bill Fleck lately. Click on the photo link below, I will try to add more photos when I get the time.

Photo link (http://picasaweb.google.com/HydroRacer.Net/VintageOPCRacingRegion34Etc/photo#s5165088614178834370)

<P>

HRTV
02-10-2008, 08:18 AM
Ray,

Do you remember who I bought the yellow boat from in my avatar :D hint it was red and the owner lived on the eastern shore of Maryland :)

Ray Lumpkin
02-10-2008, 01:53 PM
Danny
I think I drove that boat when it was red. Nice to hear from you. I have e mailed you several times in the last year. But no luck. You have good thing on that other web site!! But dont for get those tunnel boats.
And yes I talk with Bill often and go to his shop in Easton about twice a summer. Would like to meet you there sometime.Post more pictures from region 4.
Remember the older I get the faster I was!!!

HRTV
02-10-2008, 05:23 PM
Danny
I think I drove that boat when it was red. Nice to hear from you. I have e mailed you several times in the last year. But no luck. You have good thing on that other web site!! But dont for get those tunnel boats.
And yes I talk with Bill often and go to his shop in Easton about twice a summer. Would like to meet you there sometime.Post more pictures from region 4.
Remember the older I get the faster I was!!!

Gee you guys are still around:D I will send you a PM with my phone number so we can skip the email tag game. These photos should bring back a few memories :) sad part is I took all of them so I am fast approaching the old fart age also :)

Mark75H
02-10-2008, 07:11 PM
Cool stuff, Dan! Keep that scanner warmed up so we can see more!

HRTV
02-10-2008, 08:10 PM
Cool stuff, Dan! Keep that scanner warmed up so we can see more!

Will do Sam, I have 100's of photos :) can you guess where the top photo was taken with the boat #121 :)

HRTV
02-10-2008, 08:35 PM
One last photo for the night :)

Ray Lumpkin
02-11-2008, 07:46 AM
Danny
That 121 boat is a sport J class, but dont remember the driver. Your second picture is my Seabold/Merc sport G boat. I dont have but one picture of that boat, thanks for the post!

Smokey
02-12-2008, 04:29 AM
Ray, talking about dredging up the past! Jimmy Rogerson built Rayner's SJ (835)and Mark Dillow's SG (831). I rigged both of them. Rayner said he always had to follow me and put in one steel bolt to rust so he would feel at home:D. The 270 looks like my McCall that I raced twice and flipped once. I bought it from ? Anderson in Wilmington NC. I remember it as originally being a kneel-down SG boat, but it was a sit-down SE when I bought it. I think the boat went towards Richmond when I sold it.
Wish I could find some of my old pics. If so I will attempt to post some.

Beale Tilton
02-12-2008, 07:41 AM
Smokey, that sounds like the Rayner I know. Most likely adder a little duct tape also.

Ray Lumpkin
02-12-2008, 07:53 AM
Smokey
Did you buy the McCall from W.T. Anderson? I talked with him a few months ago. He said he didnt know where the boat went. I have been looking for a 14 foot McCall, mine went to Petersburg, Va. but thats all I can find out. I am posting 2 pictures of McCalls, these were taken at the Mt Dora, Fl. antique outboard show last year. Could the bottom boat be the old W.T. Anderson/Smokey boat?

Joe Silvestri 36-S
02-12-2008, 09:18 AM
Smokey
Did you buy the McCall from W.T. Anderson? I talked with him a few months ago. He said he didnt know where the boat went. I have been looking for a 14 foot McCall, mine went to Petersburg, Va. but thats all I can find out. I am posting 2 pictures of McCalls, these were taken at the Mt Dora, Fl. antique outboard show last year. Could the bottom boat be the old W.T. Anderson/Smokey boat?

Is the boat in the top picture a kneeldown boat? If so, what HP of motor was ran on it? How did it handle? Was the motor fixed or did it have trim? I have thought that us outboarders should have been looking into this type of design so it would open up the amount of places we could race at. Thanks.

Ray Lumpkin
02-12-2008, 01:10 PM
Joe
The boat in the top rack in the picture I posted is a 14ft neal down McCall tunnel boat. This was build in 1974 as a Kilo boat. Not sure what size motor mabey E class 50hp or 65hp or mabey a G class 85hp or more. The engine was fixed, no power trim. I race several neal down McCall tunnels in that time frame.Neal down tunnels were raced in OPC from about 1968 thru 1975.

Ray Lumpkin
02-13-2008, 01:39 PM
Do you know region 4 produced over 40- OPC National Champions from 1966 to about 1987!
Lets hear some stories about Lake Eufaula, we had our Nationals there about 5 years.

Joe Silvestri 36-S
02-14-2008, 03:23 AM
Joe
The boat in the top rack in the picture I posted is a 14ft neal down McCall tunnel boat. This was build in 1974 as a Kilo boat. Not sure what size motor mabey E class 50hp or 65hp or mabey a G class 85hp or more. The engine was fixed, no power trim. I race several neal down McCall tunnels in that time frame.Neal down tunnels were raced in OPC from about 1968 thru 1975.

Thanks for the history and the pics Ray. The boats look really nice, I'm impressed. Funny how history tries to repeat itself sometimes. If you have any other pictures of these boats I'd love to see them. Thanks.

Ray Lumpkin
02-14-2008, 07:36 AM
Joe
Here are more neal down McCall boats from the 60s & 70s.
1-- SG class McCall/ 700 Merc
2--same
3--How about a twin engine neal down??
4--same
5--SE McCall flat bottom.6--SG McCall running
7--SE McCall running
The more things change the more they stay the same!
Now I have pictures of different brands of neal down OPC boats!

David Weaver
02-14-2008, 01:48 PM
That appears to be a boat owned by Paul Angel from Williamsburg, VA (my home town). Are any of these photo's from Toano, VA (Kilo's) or Portsmouth, VA? It has been 20 years or more, but I remember Paul still did engine work at is house after he sold the Marina and he still had a number of boats in his shed.

Ray Lumpkin
02-15-2008, 07:46 AM
David
I remember your Dad when I was active in OPC. Saw him and you (you were a little boy) at many region 4 meetings!! You are correct about the McCall boat and Paul. Only picture I know for sure is that of Bobby running at West Point, Va with bridge in background. Paul is now in his 80s and still working on outboards in his back yard. I talked with him last summer. He is also active in turkey shooting contest.

Ray Lumpkin
02-22-2008, 08:30 AM
As Smokey said when he started this thread, region 4 OPC was the place to race. Did you know at our high point we had in 1974 85 racing members. You could race most weekends from April until the Kilos in Oct. Ha the good old days!!

HRTV
02-25-2008, 05:08 PM
As Smokey said when he started this thread, region 4 OPC was the place to race. Did you know at our high point we had in 1974 85 racing members. You could race most weekends from April until the Kilos in Oct. Ha the good old days!!


No doubt like Ray says we had boats for as far as the eye could see lined up in region 4. :):)

HRTV
02-25-2008, 05:13 PM
As Smokey said when he started this thread, region 4 OPC was the place to race. Did you know at our high point we had in 1974 85 racing members. You could race most weekends from April until the Kilos in Oct. Ha the good old days!!

Ray,

Check out the two boats beside me in my new signature photo :D Bill Fleck in the 401 out of Easton, Maryland and Bill Slivey out of Baltimore with the Johnson V4 :) man those were the days :D

The photo was taken by CW Pack during the 1983 Budweiser Cambridge Classic.

Ray Lumpkin
02-26-2008, 07:48 AM
Danny
Those were the good old days. I still keep in contact with Bill Fleck, go to his shop in Easton 2 or 3 times a summer. Bill Slivey I have not seen or heard about him since we stopped racing. Do you know how to reach him?

John (Taylor) Gabrowski
02-26-2008, 08:39 PM
I picked this picture of a Switizer Wing with a couple of Mercs running it from either Lake Laurence, WA or D Lake, Oregon. These were lifted from videos done by Jim Hallum who at the time was specializing in getting Britsh Anzani Alkys in the 15 and 20 cubic inch range going over 90 for the A and over 100 mph for the B in the late 1960s.

Enjoy the picts. :)

tthibodaux
02-26-2008, 08:45 PM
I picked this picture of a Switizer Wing with a couple of Mercs running it from either Lake Laurence, WA or D Lake, Oregon. These were lifted from videos done by Jim Hallum who at the time was specializing in getting Britsh Anzani Alkys in the 15 and 20 cubic inch range going over 90 for the A and over 100 mph for the B in the late 1960s.

Enjoy the picts. :)Thats the fastest looking wing I've seen!! Most of the pictures I see they are in race conditions and don't really look like they are going very fast but that one looks awesome! Great shots, thanks for sharing them!

John (Taylor) Gabrowski
02-26-2008, 09:06 PM
Your very welcome. I am having a wonderful time freeze framing Jim Hallum's videos on what was going on in Region 10 Pacific North West USA and posting the frames here. It takes hours of toggling the DVD to get just the right frame to cut, paste and post.

That Switzer Wing is lifting so nicely you can see under as it flys with only the props and skegs touching the water, the rest is up up and away. :)

Mark75H
02-27-2008, 04:58 AM
I'm going to split these Region 10 posts out of the Region 3/4/5 thread

Ray Lumpkin
02-27-2008, 07:23 AM
There were plenty of wings that raced in region 4. I think these picture were taken at Smith Mountain Lake, Va. around 1968 or 70. Note one picture has triple engined wing.

tthibodaux
02-27-2008, 07:49 AM
Ray, would the triple engine wing have raced with the 2 engine boats?

Ray Lumpkin
02-27-2008, 08:02 AM
Tim
The triple engines was called X class and the twin engine was called T class. The twin engine could step up and raced in the X class.

HRTV
02-27-2008, 09:54 AM
Danny
Those were the good old days. I still keep in contact with Bill Fleck, go to his shop in Easton 2 or 3 times a summer. Bill Slivey I have not seen or heard about him since we stopped racing. Do you know how to reach him?

I have no idea what happen to the Baltimore crew, Mike Herman etc.. ??

Rick Connolly
02-27-2008, 02:40 PM
Who ran the red and white wing...never seen that one before ??

Zonker1
02-27-2008, 04:15 PM
Who ran the red and white wing...never seen that one before ??


The T 414 is out of Washington state
The red & white one with no numbers is one of Jan Schoonover's boats

Zonker1

Rick Connolly
02-27-2008, 04:27 PM
The red and white is not one of Jan's wings. The red wing I have is the Schoonover/Massey wing. The one in question "looks" like the Kiston/Threlked red wing with a different white stripe painted on it.

I'm aware of the 414 history.

tthibodaux
02-27-2008, 07:11 PM
Tim
The triple engines was called X class and the twin engine was called T class. The twin engine could step up and raced in the X class.Thats pretty cool! Were there alot of triple engine wings because the twin seem much more common from what I've seen.

Ray Lumpkin
02-28-2008, 07:43 AM
Dont know who had the red & white wing. Jan Schoonover and Kenny Kitson were very active and raced in region 4 often. Dont remember or never heard about many triple engines any thing back then. Can you imagine trying to keep 3 engines running together, the cost, but I am sure the weight to power ratio was not good. Some times the good old days werent that good.
Jan Schoonover set a 4 hour record (64.663) in the UU class with a Dutchman hull, Mercury on 8/24/69 at Huddleston, Va. Kenny Kitson set a new 1 hour speed record of 73.993 mph at Huddleston, Va with a Switzer/Mercury in the T class.
Any one got a picture of a Dutchman boat?? Is this a Dutchman with 2 - 135 Mercs.

Rick Connolly
02-28-2008, 08:05 AM
Here is a side by side comparison on the of the Kitson/Threlkeld and Schoonover/Massey red wings. Notice the only difference between the two visually is the three breaks at the tip of the white stripe on Jan's. When Jan got the red wing on loan from Mercury he picked out the red one because it was the lightest of the bunch. When I talked to Ernie Threlkeld he told me the red one he had was turned back to Mercury....could the red one in question possibly be the same wing in another life ??? Talking to both Kenny and Ernie the red wing they had was heavy and never ran that well.

The history of Ernie, Jan and Kenny breaking each others records in wings back and forth is interesting.

Ray Lumpkin
02-28-2008, 08:27 AM
Same wing in another life???? Mabey. Whats that boat part sitting on the ground in our pictures?

Rick Connolly
02-28-2008, 08:31 AM
It's the rear cowl that goes over the motors. Just removed and sitting on the ground.

T2x
02-28-2008, 09:07 AM
Thats pretty cool! Were there alot of triple engine wings because the twin seem much more common from what I've seen.

There were at least three triple engine wings which, in fact, were all 20 footers. These hulls were made as duals and, in Kitson's case, a sort of "erector set" mounted third transom was added using the two stock transoms as lateral anchors. I remember looking at the setup at Smith Mountain Lake (Huddleston), VA and thinking that it totally compromised the aerodynamics and didn't look very sturdy. It seems I was right about the aero issue, but the boat seemed to stay together okay.

T2x

T2x
02-28-2008, 09:12 AM
Here is a side by side comparison on the of the Kitson/Threlkeld and Schoonover/Massey red wings. Notice the only difference between the two visually is the three breaks at the tip of the white stripe on Jan's. When Jan got the red wing on loan from Mercury he picked out the red one because it was the lightest of the bunch. When I talked to Ernie Threlkeld he told me the red one he had was turned back to Mercury....could the red one in question possibly be the same wing in another life ??? Talking to both Kenny and Ernie the red wing they had was heavy and never ran that well.

The history of Ernie, Jan and Kenny breaking each others records in wings back and forth is interesting.

Back in 1968 or so, I went out to Mercury with the thought of getting a wing. I looked at the boats that were stored in a building and was offered a Red Metalflake hull. That may be the boat in the bottom picture. But, let me also say that there were at least a dozen others there and I can't recall all of them. I particularly liked an off white hull with a red metalflake design on the sides...but was told it was also "too heavy".

I wound up running the first 16' glass Eltro vee that year with twin 1250 BP's...... and never did drive a wing....... yet;)

T2x

Rick Connolly
02-28-2008, 09:53 AM
There were at least three triple engine wings which, in fact, were all 20 footers. These hulls were made as duals and, in Kitson's case, a sort of "erector set" mounted third transom was added using the two stock transoms as lateral anchors.

The 20 I have was the only other 20 I'm aware of that ran triples. It is/was setup different than Kenny's. The transom ran all the way across the back carrying the third middle motor. The aileron was operational. Looked as areodynamic as a brick. I asked Don who had and raced the boat since 1969 about it. He claimed that it didn't fly as well, but didn't lose too much on the top end. The plus was the extra power coming out of the corners and being able to hang with the tunnels.


Back in 1968 or so, I went out to Mercury with the thought of getting a wing. I looked at the boats that were stored in a building and was offered a Red Metalflake hull. That may be the boat in the bottom picture. But, let me also say that there were at least a dozen others there and I can't recall all of them. I particularly liked an off white hull with a red metalflake design on the sides...but was told it was also "too heavy".

Must have been a cool sight.... Would love to see a picture of all the wings and race boats sitting inside Mercury back in the day.



and never did drive a wing....... yet - T2x

John's been waiting for you to get yours down to him so he can finish rigging it. Sounds like an offer you can't refuse :rolleyes:

brianT2
04-24-2008, 10:34 PM
McCall w/stacker is Jim Hunt(olegator) region 5 standout.

J. Sherlock
05-06-2008, 04:22 PM
I have no idea what happen to the Baltimore crew, Mike Herman etc.. ??Dan they tell me you will be at the Pro Worlds in Florida. Looking to get with you after all these years, should be fun.

Chip Haywood
06-03-2008, 04:58 PM
Any body rember Jack Withrow,Web Mapoles,(decessed ) where is Harley Wilson and jeff Titus I saw them mentioned earlier Also JP driver from the laate 70s James Keen (Decesed)

1969Merc800ShortShaft
07-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Dont know who had the red & white wing. Jan Schoonover and Kenny Kitson were very active and raced in region 4 often. Dont remember or never heard about many triple engines any thing back then. Can you imagine trying to keep 3 engines running together, the cost, but I am sure the weight to power ratio was not good. Some times the good old days werent that good.
Jan Schoonover set a 4 hour record (64.663) in the UU class with a Dutchman hull, Mercury on 8/24/69 at Huddleston, Va. Kenny Kitson set a new 1 hour speed record of 73.993 mph at Huddleston, Va with a Switzer/Mercury in the T class.
Any one got a picture of a Dutchman boat?? Is this a Dutchman with 2 - 135 Mercs.Great picture of the green picklefork Dutchman Ray! I ran around in one of these, back in about 1978, and never knew what I had. It was 16' long(?), which was rigged with a single T-1. Ran great & ate up the rough water around Downriver(Detroit River) Michigan. I have always wondered if there were any more of them out there? Anyone seen one of these? Thanks

1969Merc800ShortShaft
08-30-2008, 03:13 PM
Dont know who had the red & white wing. Jan Schoonover and Kenny Kitson were very active and raced in region 4 often. Dont remember or never heard about many triple engines any thing back then. Can you imagine trying to keep 3 engines running together, the cost, but I am sure the weight to power ratio was not good. Some times the good old days werent that good.
Jan Schoonover set a 4 hour record (64.663) in the UU class with a Dutchman hull, Mercury on 8/24/69 at Huddleston, Va. Kenny Kitson set a new 1 hour speed record of 73.993 mph at Huddleston, Va with a Switzer/Mercury in the T class.
Any one got a picture of a Dutchman boat?? Is this a Dutchman with 2 - 135 Mercs.Yes, this is the boat design that I am looking for...in Ray's post #125, the green Dutchman fiberglass 16' or 17' picklefork tunnel. Anyone have any leads on one??? Thanks

Rick Connolly
04-24-2009, 10:18 AM
Jan Schoonover set a 4 hour record (64.663) in the UU class with a Dutchman hull, Mercury on 8/24/69 at Huddleston, Va. Kenny Kitson set a new 1 hour speed record of 73.993 mph at Huddleston, Va with a Switzer/Mercury in the T class.
Any one got a picture of a Dutchman boat?? Is this a Dutchman with 2 - 135 Mercs.

Jan checked out of racing in late 1969, so he never set any records with a 135 Merc. It was either 1100's or 1250's...Jan's favorite motor was the 1100. I believe this boat pictured is the 16' wood plug he pulled the fiberglass mold off of. He made a 20 foot tunnel that was a pickle, but I don't believe the 16 ever was pickled.

Danny Pigott
05-13-2009, 10:32 AM
Gerrit Greer Wilmington N.C.

1969Merc800ShortShaft
05-15-2009, 08:28 AM
Jan checked out of racing in late 1969, so he never set any records with a 135 Merc. It was either 1100's or 1250's...Jan's favorite motor was the 1100. I believe this boat pictured is the 16' wood plug he pulled the fiberglass mold off of. He made a 20 foot tunnel that was a pickle, but I don't believe the 16 ever was pickled.Is the photo in post #125 not a Dutchman? If not, any idea's what, or who manufactured it? Thanks

Rick Connolly
05-15-2009, 08:42 AM
Ooops checked the photo number....my previous answer was for the wrong picture. I believe it "could" be his 20 foot Dutchman that was pickeled. What does the boat in picture 125 measure.

Rick Connolly
05-15-2009, 09:03 AM
Catalog picture.

1969Merc800ShortShaft
05-15-2009, 11:37 AM
Rick, the photo in post 125 looks exactly the same as the boat I had & definately is not the same boat, length or design, as the 20 footer in the literature you have posted. I remember, back in the day, that the pickle-fork 16'ish boat I had, was built or raced by Mark Donahue, or some other famous race car driver of that era. Is it possible that whoever owned the molds after Dutchman, then changed them to a pickle-fork design? Thanks

Rick Connolly
05-15-2009, 11:46 AM
From what I know about it....after Jan sold the company in 1969 it went tits up within a year and he lost 400K on the deal. It's possible, but I doubt it's a Dutchman. Keep in mind there were several knock offs of the Dutchman tunnel design. In the early 70's the pickle look was in and duckbill/round nose look was out. So, it could possibly be a modified splash.

1969Merc800ShortShaft
05-16-2009, 12:06 PM
From what I know about it....after Jan sold the company in 1969 it went tits up within a year and he lost 400K on the deal. It's possible, but I doubt it's a Dutchman. Keep in mind there were several knock offs of the Dutchman tunnel design. In the early 70's the pickle look was in and duckbill/round nose look was out. So, it could possibly be a modified splash.Interesting info, thank-you. The Dutchman company was worth 400 thousand dollars, in 1969? Did'nt they build just two different boat lengths? Or was there much more to this company than meets the eye? Also Rick...Is that your Switzer in your avatar?

Rick Connolly
05-16-2009, 12:18 PM
Dutchman made other boats and had a lot of orders on the books when it sold. Plus Jan owned Lima Marine....not sure if that was part of the package.

Yes, it is my wing.

1969Merc800ShortShaft
05-16-2009, 04:29 PM
Ahhhh, I thought I recognized your wing, the infamous Ted Miller wing. He lived in Boynton Beach, Fl., if I remember correctly...& owned a small marine business there...can't remember the name of it...its been years since I've driven by his old place, even though I still live close by.

Rick Connolly
05-16-2009, 06:50 PM
It's not the Ted Miller wing. It this one picture with triples.

1969Merc800ShortShaft
01-23-2010, 05:34 PM
Dont know who had the red & white wing. Jan Schoonover and Kenny Kitson were very active and raced in region 4 often. Dont remember or never heard about many triple engines any thing back then. Can you imagine trying to keep 3 engines running together, the cost, but I am sure the weight to power ratio was not good. Some times the good old days werent that good.
Jan Schoonover set a 4 hour record (64.663) in the UU class with a Dutchman hull, Mercury on 8/24/69 at Huddleston, Va. Kenny Kitson set a new 1 hour speed record of 73.993 mph at Huddleston, Va with a Switzer/Mercury in the T class.
Any one got a picture of a Dutchman boat?? Is this a Dutchman with 2 - 135 Mercs.I am still looking for a boat like the green picklefork Dutchman in Ray's photo post #125. I believe I actually owned that exact boat in the photo, which I bought in 1976. Anyone know anyone that might have one? Thanks

1969Merc800ShortShaft
03-05-2012, 09:43 AM
Ooops checked the photo number....my previous answer was for the wrong picture. I believe it "could" be his 20 foot Dutchman that was pickeled. What does the boat in picture 125 measure.The green pickle in the photo "could" be 20"(?). But, if memory serves, mine was more in the 16-17' range. Sorry, old post revisited.

Brian Rogerson
12-05-2020, 04:18 PM
76267
I found this from a region 4 race. A few region drivers were part of the Lowenbrau Six Pack Navy.

Smokey
08-04-2021, 11:04 AM
I remember that race well. Along with the go-cart races afterwards! Harley Wilson was a menace on the track as well as the water!