View Full Version : What is this?

05-21-2008, 03:39 PM

i made a purchase today and i'm not sure just what it is. i've attached several pictures. the block, pistons and heads look like and i've been told, have never been together. they look brand new. the bore is 2.562, but nothing is stamped on the block anywhere, no serial number, bore or timing. haven't seen that before. the pistons do not have the l ring only a single ring that looks like chrome or stainless. the heads are the 2 piece kind that has the extra water pockets milled in them and they are made on billet aluminum, not cast like all my others. you have any idea what i got???? thought it was very cool so i took it home in the front seat of the vette.

i also picked up a 44 powerhead, xf34 and a d block with the intermediate plate and a quincy crank case, fd36. can you help with those numbers?

hope the pictures are clear and if you need any more let me know.


John (Taylor) Gabrowski
05-21-2008, 04:28 PM
That block sure looks more like the later model evolved block with new "T" style wide porting in spots. The piston with squarish ring came from the same era when the Harrisons were using the similar type of piston ring system on their A and B Loop 2 cylinder race engines. Those kind of rings are full compression from the getgo pull of the rope on the engine to start which people told me was as wicked as the old Quincy/Merc padded block Alky Deflectors where the later "L" shaped Dykes rings required a quick snap to get just enough compression to start and then that pressure back ring technology took over the rest of the way making life easier starting the Flatheads.

There were also offset combustion chambers put in some heads as well as dead centered combustion chambers in your pictures. There were both billet machined and case heads both one piece and two.

Good looken stuff to do justice to restoring a Quincy Flathead engine! I sure enjoyed restoring them too as you are. Keep up the great work. :)

05-21-2008, 06:58 PM

thanks for the input. i did notice the intakes were different then the ones i've seen before. i also noticed there isn't the extra water passages drilled thru the block like others. so what you're saying this is a later block. i'd be interested in compairing it to xf34 when it goes under the wrench.


Ron Hill
05-21-2008, 07:30 PM
Are those pistons Quincy or Levendusky?

Just a FYI question...

Original Looper 1
05-21-2008, 07:35 PM

Are you sitting down? Hang on to your chair, because it appears that you have the very last NOS 44 Looper Quincy Welding ever produced. Why do I say that? Because I was there in 1976 when I believe this Looper was manufactured.

The very last assembly line run of Quincy 4 cylinder C, D and 44 Loopers was in February of 1976. I distinctly remember coming back from the Worlds in Phoenix, AZ and climbing up the stairs into the Quincy Welding back finishing area at 5:30 am, to see the final run (which I didn't know then would be the final run) of Loopers sitting on a long bench, waiting for the finish grinding and contouring of the transfer ports by hand. This was done before final block stamping, piston sizing and assembly (or packing/shipping if bought as a kit, which was a block - head - piston - crankcase assembly). I wish I could go back in time to take a photo of that table full of new and what I consider to be beautiful, new, hand made racing engines.

This engine appears to be brand new, never assembled or used. It also appears to never have had studs installed in the block. Your excellent photos indicate that.

We only made 2 44's in that last run in 1976. Remember, we were heavily involved in the design and production of the Z engine at that time. What makes me think this was the very last one produced is not only the fact that it is NOS, but also because it has no Quincy serial numbers stamped on it or bore size stamped on it. It also has NOS pistons, never used, with the latest triple chrome plated rings that we were using at that time. Another indicator of it's status is the central combustion chamber cylinder heads -- they were used on the very last Loopers Quincy Welding ever made. We experimented with them earlier on, but we never sold (that I recall) a set with a 44 until the last engine. I think I know where the other 44 from 1976 is located, and it has both a serial number and bore size stampings on it. I also noticed the ports - I recognize my hand filing work on them from the photos. There are other traits that indicate to me that my analysis is accurate.

This motor, from a collector's standpoint, has to be extremely valuable. Not because it has a racing history, but because it appears to be the very last one made. The fact that it is NOS and never assembled or run makes it even more special, along with the fact that 1976 was also a special milestone for our country.

Frank, you lucky dog! How did you ever find this?

Paul A Christner

05-21-2008, 07:37 PM

that's a good question. maybe paul will know. that single ring is very interesting.


Jeff Lytle
05-21-2008, 07:50 PM
Wholly smokes Frank..........Looks like you just hit the jackpot!

05-21-2008, 08:13 PM

you've got to be kidding! i thought it different, but never this! how did i find it? it was in plain sight. replied to an ad on the web.

i want to put it together, but never run it or start it. the heads are very interesting, trying to figure out how the water got in them. there are a bunch of holes around the cyls but no way to get in.

man, i gotta digest this. this is so cool..... thank you for looking at the pictures and getting back to the posting.


John (Taylor) Gabrowski
05-21-2008, 08:23 PM
Frank - Its all the finding and doing coupled to the lucking out of having something with a meaning like driven by, the last one of and so on. This sport has a side to it that 99.9 percent of people will never face and never own due to the small numbers and distinctness of the engines, boat and sport. When you finally assemble it as NOS I hope you never start it and it stays new. That makes it historic and new 1976 which will happen never again. :)

05-21-2008, 08:34 PM

i know what you mean. it's only new once and will remain that way!!!! it will be assembled but never run or even started. it's kinda like finding a classic car with zero miles on it. any idea where i can get new studs? would fastenal have them?


John (Taylor) Gabrowski
05-21-2008, 08:47 PM

Its amazing how much cooler loop engines run in comparison to deflector engines. With deflectors it was a massive piston crowns getting heat soaked and massive cooling to go with them to cool them. With Loop Flatheads the loop technology is inherently cooler running and you use the cool running characteristics of methanol, water passages got smaller so it did warm up a bit but loop in no way needed the cooling of a padded deflector Alky. That is why some passages are not there on your NOS Flathead and why water outlet holes are oh so small.

The T ported exhausts are of a concern being so wide at the top also got exhaust gases out so fast but be aware that square high tension rings and wide ports do not go together necessarily and those rings might just deform into the wide ports which means your might need a NOS set of Quincy pistons with single "L" Dykes rings as they were specifically designed to handle wide ports technologies as well as handle easier starting through their pressure back features of operation. Once the exhaust goes out the top of that port the pressure goes slack on the "L" ring and the chances of it snagging a port stop. Not so with a full constant tension square or rectangular ring. Chrome rings are not forgiving. So be aware as you might find a problem the first time you rope it assembled with those squarish ringed pistons. Radiusing the ports does help using those pistons and rings but how much only rotating it assembled after that is done will tell you if you have a ring snagging ports problem. That is why there was quite some evolution going on even in Quincy Flatheads.

John (Taylor) Gabrowski
05-21-2008, 09:01 PM

All the Quincy Flatheads I did were all helicoiled already in the bolt holes. Grade 8 Allen bolts or fine thread anodized Grade 8 cap bolts were in use. Those are available at small aircraft and quality automotive parts distributors or specialty suppliers of nuts and bolts. I like the anodized cap bolts because of their finish, their strength and with the wider head with a anodized hardened washer under it spread the torque down over a wider surface than Allan bolts which also come in different finishes and coatings too. A lot of Quincy engines used nearly all Allen bolts all over too for clearancing and standardization reasons. You may have to trim lengths too in the final assembly.

Frank Volker
05-22-2008, 06:25 AM
Did this block escape without having the intake ports squared or was this hand filing operation discontinued?

Frank V.