Classic H-4

[David Weaver]

Guess who won this heat of 500cc Hydro at Constantine circa 1986.

[Jeff Lytle]

Klassic Kirts !!
Man that Schu would fly !! A buddy of mine has that boat now up here in Canada.

[Jeff Lytle]

Dan hangin' her high in 350ccH

[BRIAN HENDRICK]

Jeff/David;
Just saw this post. First pic I saw of the boat in its original blue.
As I found it in FL, it is now black, and I do not have the canopy.
If anyone has more pics of it in blue, I would like to see them,
as it should be redone as Kirts ran it. :cool:

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

I too have one that was used to run a Yamato 500 Alky, from Carl Laverenz from Moline, Ill, USA. He went on to Pugh hydros. Now its for developmental use. Very stable and very predictable. I heard that Schumaker was a disciple of Tim Butt's boat building fame? Interesting similarities. The next engine to be run on this one will be a rebuilt Quincy Flathead D presently in the works. Nice boat there. My compliments. :)

[Mark75H]

Brian, I wish it had bought that Eldredge lower unit while it was here in MD .... that was about 3 months before I broke my propshaft :(

[BustnlooseIII]

John, did you buy Carl's 500 yamato motor too? Those engines were fast. I think you are correct that Schumaker was a disciple of Butts. He built some good boats. Kirts sure kicked a lot of tail in them.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Lowell Schumacher. He was a disciple of Tim's. I don't know much about the history of his boats because I got out around the time he started building boats (I think). Is he still involved?

[BustnlooseIII]

Wayne, I believe my father had told me he thought Schumaker was possibly still helping someone else build boats. I'll have to ask him again.

[Jeff Lytle]

He helps Gary Pugh build boats.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

How come Gary hasn't signed up? I've looked for him before, or is he here in disquise? He and Lowell both need to be members.

[Jeff Lytle]

Eric is a member here: http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/member.php?u=192

He has posted here a couple of times, but calls Hydroracer home. Gary is a member of HR too, but has never posted there.

Eric says he dosn't have time to fool around on the net when there is boats to build!! :D

As far as Lowell goes, he still calls Michigan home, but goes to Knoxville in the Winter to help Gary build boats.

[Ron Hill]

Dan Kirts, winner of C Hydro....1968???

With the Quincy???

[BRIAN HENDRICK]

Sam; -this is a pic of the 500 Schumaker as it appeared 'FOR SALE' at the Clayton RBR in 2000[1998?] with the Eldridge l/u you saw later . [He sure liked to have lots of fuel :eek: ] Is this l/u the same case as one built for Dmods, and using modified Merc 13:14 gears?

[Mark75H]

Yes, that is the same lower unit ... (I saw it before Clayton) I've never seen an Eldredge with 13:14's - only 14:14's. I asked some alky racers about the 3 ½ gallon tank and they thought it was correct for the motor.

Marshall originally made these lower units for alky Mercs in the early 1950's. I have begun to suspect it was derived from one of the prototypes that Kiekhaefer rejected. Possibly a design by Mabry Edwards who did the original Martin Hi Speed 60 lower unit and started the post WWII racing motor boom.

[John (Taylor) Gabrowski]

It's a nice 500 model of Schumaker. My Schu has the same tank setup, holds the same amount of fuel and even the cap even spins at a closed point so you can't over tighten it.

How many hydros did Schumaker build and for which classes? Anyone?

Over the years you hear about and see Eldredge lower units here and there. Why did they not take off as a major player? What was their holdback? The last one I looked at had problems keeping the propshaft that needed replacing, why didn't it go further???

[BRIAN HENDRICK]

Sam; -you never "saw Eldridge l/u's" other than 1:1's";
I thought they were all 13:14s as the only one I have [ever had] is 13:14, but not the one off the H-4 Schu.
This one is in good shape, set up for D Merc, stamped "MHE" and 13:14 on one side, and "LEE DINGMAN" on the other. Wonder who he is , eh???. ;)

[Mark75H]

I think David Woodall can fill us in on Mr. Dingman :) I think he was from down around I-10 in LA ... the Texans always talk about Dingman; Wayne Baldwin might know the name too...

Not only does yours have 13:14 gears, the driveshaft has been altered to use a square König type coupler and 2 recesses ground for an adapter plate. Thats not the way Marshall made them. I bet the adapter fit a König once upon a time :)

[Peter Crowley]

The original lower units were made by Marshall Sr. He was a terrific "engine tuner" through the 30's with Clint Ferguson as driver. Marshall was obviously one of the best engine modifiers as his record shows. He eventually produced parts for these engines.... In the period between 1937 and 1938, Marshall created an X class engine for Clint. Its big competition came from the set of engines that Bedford Davie had built by Dean Draper. Essentially, this engine was made from ganging together two PR Johnsons. This was a logical to do this because Marshalls heavily modified PR cylinders were winning National Championships AND breaking records. Four of these running together would be a powerhouse! He produced a single common crankcase and his own towerhousing that pre-dated the common "Mercury design" of today... this was because of the tractor lowerunit. He wanted the propeller to maintain its position along the centerline of the boat while turning. AND he designed and built the tractor lowerunit. They started out with the standard gear ratio and discovered that their props didn't work. Then they experimented with an overdrive ratio and found that their good "B" props worked well. After the war, Marshall began building and selling various replacement parts for the pre-war racing engines. Among other things, he made lowerunits for the C-service and racing engines of the day. He changed and adapted to different applications over the years unit his death in 1971. Marshall Jr. worked with his father for many years. The early Konig style lowerunits were made with Mercury gears.... There were some very successful racers who preferred the Eldredge lower unit to what was available at that time. I don't think Marshall needed to have someone else design a lowerunit for him...... They were all somewhat similar because on the lowerunit specifications in the rule book.

Once, a long time ago.... when we no longer had factory support in SO racing- Marshall Jr offered to help the situation by producing a lowerunit for that category! The commission didn't approve of the idea and it died (unit Little made the ones for the OMC). It was probably the lack of demade that caused him to stop building lowerunits. As with any business, periodically you need to re-tool and invest money into your opperation. If you don't see a return on your investment- then you don't invest in the future!

[Pete Nydahl]

Here are some pics of Dan receiving a large trophy,not sure when or where this event took place.Could use some help on this one.

[racingfan1]

At the 2021 Constantine Michigan USTS race, Dan Kirts ran his last race and ended his legendary career. At the 2021 USTS banquet, Dan was honored with this video. Click on the link to view the video. Thanks to Wayne Baldwin, Andy Kirts, and the DePue Men's Club for sharing pictures for this video.

https://youtu.be/5f0draorZoA