what was done to this crank?

[fbref5269]

hi all,

i purchased on old merc c service section 2 engine this summer and i'm beginning to restore it. i took the crank out and found some interesting machining that had been done on the throws. the ends have been beveled and i've seen that before. by the way the beveling was done very well. now for the big question, what was done to the flat part of the throws???? you can see on the pictures that there was a groove or a trough milled in it. my question is what was the reason for doing it.


i would also like to know who raced the engine. here is what i've been told. jack kugler had it for a while and never ran it. he cannot remember who he bought it from. however he said it won the nationals when they were in california. may have won both the hydro and the runabout c service classes. he was not sure. any help out here? that is all i know. if the owner who raced this engine has any pictures of him/her running it i would like some copies to use in my display. i do intend to run it at a vintage race one day.

i've also included a picture of the exhaust side of the block and a muffler that was on it. i don't know if the muffler was on it when it was raced, but it did have a bunch of castor on it.

any help would be great.


frank
collector of old things that were new when i raced

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

It would surely help if you knew who the orginal owner was. The reason I say that is (to the best of my memory) there were not that many of these around in the time frame they were being built and run (late 60's/early70's). I know that Waldman had one, Larry Latta had one I believe, possibly Pete Hellsten, (although I do not remember a 4 cylinder, he definitely had a 2 cylinder Merc), and "Dirty Ernie" LaRose from the St. Louis area had one that Bill Seebold Sr. built and tuned for him. I drove that motor on his Hydro one year at DePue when he smashed his thumb and could not hold the throttle or wheel, don't remember which. Think I finished 2nd and Butch Leavendusky won with a Speeditwin and Marchetti Hydro. That combination (Leavendusky's) was almost unbeatable for quite a number of years, if nothing broke on the motor.

There was MUCH controversy about these motors being used in C-Service at the time, and I think that was the reason for the Division 1 and @ 2 desinations even though they ran together most of the time they were run, they were scored separately. Again from memory, the main bone of contention (other than a lot of the Speeditwin guys just did not like the Mercs) was that the Merc was allowed to run the same lower unit as the Speeditwin which made it very competitive against the Speeditwin.

Another possible source of info on this modification might be Harry Brinkmans book on Mercs, although I can't imagine the Mod category at that time would allow such drastic cutting/shaping on a crank. Possibly Dudley Malone in Oklahoma City or Kenny Bayer in the Tulsa area might shed some light on what the modification was intended to do.

[Mark75H]

It looks like the intention of the machining is to scoop mixture away from the reeds and force it to the center of the rod area to align and force it to the transfer passage

[fbref5269]

bill,

i left a message for dudly to call me about the modification.

dave augustine seems to think that the nations were in bakersfield in 1984. does anyone have the c service results for the race?

frank

[Danny Thayer]

It looks like this may have come from Harry O'Brien's shop one of his early motors, mid 70's to early 80's. This is crank mod is to keep the fuel in the crank case more active. Try it and see if there is a differance, it will suprise you.

[fbref5269]

sam,

this was from a merc c service block, not a looper. could it be to increcse air volumn and thus increase pressure?

frank

[fbref5269]

danny,

any idea whose engine it might have been? did the mod work?

frank

[Danny Thayer]

It looks like Harry's work. The engine could have been one of Dorn's, Spandou's, Miller's its hard to say. Are there any stampings on the block? If so that might give you a starting point.

[fbref5269]

danny,

i'll take a look tomorrow. i did see the bore size stamped on the top. nothing really jumped out at me, but i'll take a closer look. did any of the guys you mention win the nationals at bakersfield? the ehhaust and the intake ports have had some mojor work done to it. i far cry from my old merc c service i ran in the 70's. it came from the junk room at a johnson dealership. paid $5 for it. it was fun class, ran against henry shakeshaft every race.

frank

[Danny Thayer]

Frank I'm not sure, Dorn or Spandau may have. I was young back then and we got away from baots and started foolin with dirt bikes. We didn't get back to the boats until 82. From what you are discribing it sounds like Harry's work, the first exhaust cover looks like an O'Brien plate, if you could take the intake covers off and take a picture of the ports I could probably tell for sure if it is one of Harry's motors. Another way is pull the exhaust plate and let me see the filler block. This could have even been one of Harry's son Mike O'Brien's motors for a while.

[Bill Van Steenwyk]

I certainly am not going to say that Mike O'brien never ran C Service with a 4 cyl Merc, but I don't remember him ever doing it. I had a good deal of interaction with Harry along in this time frame, as I had loaned him a boat that Kay Harrison was running with his (Harrys) A & B Mod motors on. I remember him strictly as a Mod person at that time and also Mike was running a couple the smaller displacement Alky classes along later on also, and I don't believe I ever saw him drive a Merc C Service or any other for that matter. Also were not most of the motors Harry O'brien worked on being used for Mod, Super Stock, and whatever else the sanctioning bodies such as AOF, NOA, APBA were calling what is the MOD category today?

He was certainly capable I am sure, I just have a hard time visualizing Harry involved in C Service. Also there weren't really that many of the motors (Mercs) around being run, at least at National events, that I remember anyway, as it was almost as devisive a subject as radios in the PRO category 35 years later.

P.S. Thought Bakersfield was in '82?

[Danny Thayer]

We didn't fool with C's that much but from the pics this look like a C mod that has been converted to a service motor. The plate over the exhaust has been added later. I have ran against Harry's motors for 27 years and this looks like one.

[Aeroliner]

Here is a photo of a typical Harry Brinkman crank. In the parts that I bought there was a simular crank that hand been contoured to accelerate the air flow away from the reeds. Note the bevel on the upper crank counter weight. I assume that this contour could created a vacuum over the reed blocks allowing the engine to increase airflow. Note the simularity of the crank in the photo I have posted.

Alan

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

It looks like the intention of the machining is to scoop mixture away from the reeds and force it to the center of the rod area to align and force it to the transfer passage

Sam,
I had the same thought. Pete Hellsten did have 4 cylinders as well as 2 cylinder Merc C Service engines. However, I don't recall that he ever did that kind of work on the crank. His son Chris, current racer & new 350 c.c. National hydro champ visits hydroracer.net. Frank, put a post there with a subject line "Hellsten C Service". He'll pick it up & post.

[Mark75H]

Mercury switched to beveled cranks in their 66 and 99ci production motors in 1970, but I do not know if any of this is especially effective without the concurrent switch to reeds anchored at the center toward the crankshaft that open into the space created by the bevel.

[Powerabout]

whats the brown stuff
looks like the engine was running on Permatex

[Mark75H]

whats the brown stuff
looks like the engine was running on Permatex

That is typical castor bean oil residue. Unless an alky is flushed with a gas/mineral oil flush run for a few minutes after a race, that brown stuff will be on everything. In a very short time it polymerizes into stuff that might as well be glue or Permatex.

Lots of old motors are "castor stuck"

[Powerabout]

I didn't know that.

thanks Sam

[fbref5269]

hi all,

here are some pictures of the filler black, wow nice job on that one, and the exhaust ports. i will try to get a better picture of the ports tomorrow, the camera died. i'l also posy on hydroracer later tonight anout the hellman c service. thanks for all the input.

that orange stuff is permatex gasket seal. it's all over the place.

frank

[fbref5269]

sam,

you are sooo right about the castor stuck. this one had it big time. a good parts cleaner did free it up in about 2 days of soaking.

frank

[Chris Hellsten]

Frank,

My dad only built one 4-cylinder C service. We didn't have much luck with it and I'm not sure where it wound up. The crank work in this one is not something we normally did.

The steel welded up muffler looks very much like the ones Larry Latta used and he predominately ran 4 cyl Merc (we had aluminum). Also, judging the fact that it took over 2 days to get all the castor off also sounds like it could have been one of Larry's. My dad always had me there to clean his off! Jack Kugler may have gotten this motor from Larry, they were very close.

I believe Tim Warren won C Service runabout in 1982 in Bakersfield, CA. Tim and Todd ran hydro and runabout with a 4-cylinder in that timeframe.

Regards,

Chris Hellsten

[fbref5269]

chris,

thanks for getting back to me. i know what you mean about larry and castor buildup. i have 5 of larry's quincy z engines and castor buildup is pretty thick on them. it does clean up with the parts cleaner from gunk i'm using. there may be a connection with this engine and larry. would still like to know who did the crank. jack didn't think it was one of larry's but who knows. this is the fun part of finding the old engines. plans are to get it running again. 2 days soaking in the cleaner frees up the rings that are castor stuck on the pistons. just like the ones that came out of the quincy z engines. which is better then the ones i got from a c looper i got off ebay. i had to soak and cook the pistons to free up the rings. used the gas grill for that one, wife said no to the oven.

frank

[Danny Thayer]

Frank.

Looking at this last picture, the filler block is an O’Brien. This is probably the last C motor that he built, just guessing it to be Jeff Young’s that he ran on a hydro until the early 90’s then he sold everything in the mid 90’s. This was a fast motor back then he give Terry Witham fits when they raced against each other back the day, Jeff was about 80lbs heavier than Terry at that time and ran right with him, that’s how strong this motor was. If you were to get it back to original with Merc pistons, a set of elbows and megaphones you will have a nice ride with it on your boat.

[fbref5269]

danny,

thanks for the info. question though..... why change back to merc pictons, the turners on there are cleaning up real nice. the rings freed up after 2 days of soaking. didn't have to cook them on the barbie to free them. i want to display/run it as a c service, but what mods to the block would i need to do to be a c mod? other than elbows, megs and a lower unit.

thanks for your input.

frank

[fbref5269]

hi all,

i popped the covers off the intake ports and here are some pictures. a lot of work was done on them. the crank is cleaning up real nice and all 4 pistons have freed up rings. as you can see from the cyl shot there is a little bit of castor in them. actually a bunch. the red stuff is the permatex that i scraped off.

frank

[Danny Thayer]

Frank,

Speaking for myself I would put the pistons back in it because you have a piece of history, now that Harry is no longer with us. He was one of the best mod motor builders their was. Mods to the block, from what I see in your pics the block is ready to go. If you can get the parts that I already mentioned a set of good carbs, a Keifkeifer (SP) mag and a C Merc lower unit with either 1 to 1 or 16 to 21 gears this motor will run strong. With the right prop it will come out of the corners hard and keep accelerating the entire length of the straightaway. Hope this helps and good luck with what ever you decide to do with it.

[fbref5269]

danny,

that sounds lke a plan. first i'll display it as a c service. i have several bayer towers i can put the powerhead on to run mod. i have several d quickie units with the propshaft turned down to the c prop shaft size. would that work? the crank has the larger bottom spline. i'l picking out a set of carters for the c service display, but have several stock carbs i picked up over the last year. i'll let you know if i need any parts.

when its together i'll post more pictures.

frank