I'll let Dieter König's own words start us off:
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I'll let Dieter König's own words start us off:
Dieter's father, Rudolf started making little outboards with very long shafts for sailboats. People said he was crazy, but sailboaters liked the inexpensive fuel stingy outboards and he developed a steady business. Here is that J motor from 1935. As far as I know this was the first König racer.
Wish I had a flash & done more angles, but anyway. The first three are on a riverboat on a lake in West Berlin, celebrating 50 years of Konig Motorenbau. (1927-1977). The other two are some motors at the factory.
Is that motor next to the "side board" display motor a 3 cylinder radial 500cc?
I wish Dieter was still around to tell us about this stuff. :(
You mean the small little motor on the end? I don't think it's a radial, but I never looked real close. I think it was the style Rudolph first built for sailboats or rowboats. The shaft here was cut short for it to fit the display.
No, I meant the next one. I know about the one on the end. It was marketed as a "sideboard" motor that clamped to a board midships. I think the distributor "Bray" in England sold a whole lot of them for König.
Sam:
You've got a good eye, especially for a not too good photo. I never caught that before. I've wandered around Deiter's factory many days. He never had any restrictions, & I always had a camera or two, but I never remember seeing those motors. I snapped a couple of quick shots, with poor lighting, on the way to our seats on the cruise. I was on my honeymoon with my wife Debbie after the racing was done, & I wasn't really concentrating on the engine display.
There might be some more Eric, but this is the one I think of. I've posted a lot of Konig stuff here and there, but I had been planning on putting pics here, except I keep sidetracking. Not that it's bad to add to the subject on current threads, but it's easy to get lost when you try to go back for a second look.
Here is a Konig 125 that I raced for several years. We bought this engine and boat from Jane and Ralph Smith. The powerhead was pretty much "stock" from the factory. The only modification that I remember was water injection into the pipe. We ran this on 12:15 lower unit. I wish we had had an 11:15 back then. But I am not sure that the engine could have taken too much more vibration.
Can't believe it's been that long since anything has been added here.
These are some pics I took at the Konig factory in 1976. Dieter let me take pictures of anything I wanted. I wish I knew about the museum upstairs back then. I only heard about it a couple of years ago from Steve Litzell. Dieter was so preoccupied with the present, I guess he never stopped to think I would have liked a glimpse of the past.
These are castings for the FA Konig. I can't recall all the things Dieter told me about the making of these, but I believe his sister Margaret made them.
Here is the test tank.
I've posted some of these pictures somewhere before on BRF. I can't remember where. Jeff Lytle once asked in a PM if I had any more to post? I just said Yes!. At the time I thought I would be able to follow up with some posts, but we got so busy in the oilfield that I could only barely keep up. At the time, my reply now seems flippant, but I didn't mean it to be so. Jeff wanted a look inside the factory. These pics aren't great. My flash (in those days they were very unreliable on the non commercial side) copped out in the dust of the Sahel of Africa so I shot every thing with available light. I can take pics OK, but my lab skills on developing film on the high end of the temparature gradient in South Texas mean lots of refinement on the computer. When I took all these pics I was not trying to do a story, but merely record some of the history of Konig. I just went around snapping pics of what was there. As Joe Rome and I have discussed many times....we saw a lot of things....and met a lot of people...and did things we never thought about at the time. That's kind of how I remember my times at the Konig factory. I was there to race, and I had a camera and liked to take pictures.
I did do an interview with Dieter the year before, and also took some pictures but I never submitted them. It was a feeling of getting things ready for racing and the history was later. When you were done.
Of course, anyone who knew Dieter....Boat racing history was for a grand celebration.....when you had time. However, Dieter loved and knew the history of Germany, Austria, and surrounding countries. The ancient sientific acheivments were paramount in Dieter's mind. When we drove from Berlin to Linz, Austria he pointed out a monestary above the Danube River and explained how the monks pumped water more than a 1000 meters above the Danube into the monestary in the 1400's.
This is some of the stuff I was talking about. 2nd pic off the roll, with light intruding. Thought though that any pics from the shop that is gone would be good for outboard history buffs.
A couple more before I sign off tonight.
A few more. Stay tuned.....
Still more to come
ADD: The guy in the background with the apron is Dieter's foreman Sigfried Lubnow.
Wayne............You amazed me with your driving skills way back in the day..........But your foresight in knowing what you recorded on film and saved all these years, again, is amazing. Thanks for what you are giving us. I am reliving some wonderful times with your photos.............
Wayne,
These pictures are the greatest! I'm sure you know where most of them will eventually end up.
Based on my experience of engine manufacturing & collecting, especially one off rare Konigs,and my analysis of the castings in your photos of the opposed 4 cylinders stacked up -- were the pictures taken in 1975 or early 1976? They appear to be C 500 castings by the bore spacing of the sleeves and the bore sizing, along with the external casting traits that Dieter I'm finding changed over the years for reasons unknown. It's almost surreal that my father and Dieter were so alike in many unusual ways.
Tell me, Wayne, how close did my analysis hit?
Many thanks, Wayne, for your insightful photos.
Paul A Christner
I thank you for your comments Charley, but if I had foresight...I would have taken more notes. Being at the factory was something I never dreamed would have happened as a 16 year old reading the brochures and looking at the pictures over and over. It really was an afterthought that I went there in the first place. I had a six week excursion ticket, but only a 30 day visa to Nigeria. When I left I spent a week in London, then on a lark I flew to Berlin to see Dieter and visit the factory. To my luck...Jerry Drake just flew in from South Africa. That is where I met Jerry. It was the following year I was invited to race in Berlin for the first time.
Paul...these pictures were taken in 1975. I guess I can say that you were right, but I also can't confirm it. I never saw any racks of castings that were separated. I thought at the time and still do that 350 through 1100 were the same castings....just a larger borehole for the bigger sleeves. I may be wrong though. I will send you the pics of the casting block and molds for your website when I get the e mail working again. I am really looking forward to your comments on how those work.
More pics
ADD: In the third pic with a green shirt....I couldn't communicate with this guy...but he was friendly. After Dieter introduced me to him he said "He is a refuge (refugee) from Palestine".
A few more before I sign off. Debbie went to San Antonio yesterday and is going to Austin tommorrow....so I have been able to pull out photo binders, scan and leave them on the floor while searching the next group. It makes a quicker turnaround time on scanning photos. Maybe no pics tommorrow. I have to put everything back, plus file a bunch of backlogged stuff on the shelves in the study. It's been fun though, going through the old pics. I've been thinking about drawing a schematic about the layout of the factory so everyone could get an idea of the places the photos were taken.
Wayne,
Thank you for posting the pictures of the Konig plant. They sure bring back some memories of when I was a whole bunch younger and was able to race my AOH and BOH. I wish I could remember which models I had, the B had the coffee can style of pipes and the A had the first set of sliding pipes that I had seen. I bought both from Marcel Bellville if I remember correctly.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry. I have many more to go. I've been trying to remember the exact layout of the plant. I have a fairly good idea, but a couple of rooms have thrown me for a loop.
The cans came out I believe in late 67, but by 1968 that is what you got. I think the first sliding pipe A Konigs were in 1971, but I may be wrong. We did a trade with Marcel Bellville around 1969 or 1970 for a dyno. Seems like we gave him a motor or two for that dyno. We couldn't tame it so my Dad gave it to someone else who could use it. Thanks for the history Jerry.
After I get done with the butterbeans and chicken I am cooking (a recipe from Roland Rome---Joe's Dad) I will try to post more pics.
Wayne,
I think I got the A motor from Marcell in the fall of 1970, it was the one that he had run at the nats in 1970. I picked up a 12' 6" Bellcraft that had blown off of the Hauenstein's trailer on the way back from the nats at the same time. Got the boat rebuilt in time for the first race of the 1971 season. Dad was still running his Anzani and doing pretty well with it. After I ran a couple of test laps he wanted to know what I thought needed changing as he thought it looked pretty slow. I told him to not touch it, that I liked the way it was. I was late on the first start and dad beat me to the first turn, I really enjoyed waving to him as I passed him on the outside. I lapped him before the end of the heat. <grin> That boat/motor combination fit me like a glove, I think I lost 1 heat with it until I had to quit racing due being layed off during the aerospace layoffs, even when I stepped up and ran it in B. I always wondered how I would have done with it if I had been able to continue racing.
Jerry
There was a big jump in power when Dieter went from the fixed pipe FA's to the sliding pipes. I'm trying now to remember how the carbs were located. It's stories like yours Jerry that keep us going. It's too bad you had to quit when you did. we might have met up on the race course some place. I was about in the same learning curve as you in 1971.
We still have my dad's first FA. It was built in 1969 and had the sliding pipes. These maybe moved 2-3 inches. The carbs were in either side (righ/left) of the engine. IN the attached photo, my dad is looking over the set-up before a heat in Sutton, WV during the mid 1980's.
Thanks David, that is the exact motor that I ran. I couldn't remember for sure if it was 1969 or 1970 that I got it. Did you and your dad run yours with the sliding throttle or a seperate lever for the pipes?
Jerry
I've been racking my brain to remember such an FA. I had forgotten about the sliding throttle, but I remember them. We only used levers in front of the throttle. I can only remember the fixed pipe FA's with carbs on opposite sides like your Dad's David. The first sliding pipe FA's I recall were with the single pipe on the converging elbows. I am sure I've seen the ones like you and Jerry have, but I am going to have to clear more cobwebs away.
What was the hookup like that allowed synchronized sliding. Also, I didn't see any rings on a bracket, but it kind of looks like maybe a bar underneath the one pipe that some sort of collar or hollow cylinder welded on the pipe slid on. It that correct....or how was it set up.
I don't know how the one that David's dad had was set up but mine had a tray mounted to both pipes that slid on a pair of rods that were bolted to the engine. I don't know if this was the factory set up or something that Marcell came up with. I do remember that Gerry Walin was very interested in the set up and complimented me on the simplicity. I never used the sliding throttle as I preferred a seperate lever that I operated with my right elbow, never had a pipe hang up.
The sliding throttle setup was the brainchild of Mister Tom Hardin, he made it for Mal originally for the 500cc Konig they had, said Mal could not hold the pipes up on it, so he designed that set up, ran them myself , got them from Mister Hardin and used the Konig throttle, then later changed to the Harrison Freon slide units, that was ahoot to use , had to remember which switch brought the pipes up to 1/2 and which was all the way up.
Hi there,
I am new to this so hopefully this will end up somewhere useful. I am writing a book about the late, great Kim Newcombe. Kim, a fellow Kiwi, came second in the 1973 world 500cc motorcycle GP championship - sadly posthumously. Kim built his Konig powered bike in the factory with Dieter's help.
It was raced as a Konig. It would be great if I could ask a few questions and see if anyone can give me the answers I need. Naturally the battles between Quincy and Konig are a significant part of the book.
For example I would like to know when proper expansion chambers and stingers were first used on Konigs and if they were the first to use them on outboards.
I have two books that have appeared in the States - John Britten (the story of the Britten motorcycles) and One Good Run (the story of Burt Munro - subject of the film "The World's Fastest Indian")
Any help you can give would be much appreciated.
PS I intend writing a book soon on the history of oor own Masport Cup. We have been building hydros down here for as long as the reat of the world.
Cheers
Tim Hanna
Tim, Dieter was one of the early users of expansion chambers and stingers, but not the first. As best as I can tell, Carniti's V-4 500cc racer was the first racing outboard to come from the factory with expansion chambers ... but fewer than 10 were made.
We have discussed what year expansion chambers first appeared on Konigs in the past here on BRF. I'll see if I can find it ... my guess would be around 1961. Dieter did not go to Walter Kaaden's full scheme including rotary valve induction until later.
Thanks Sam, that is really instructive.
I have written a little about Kaaden but there are a number of points that remain obscure. For example when did Kaaden's work become public knowledge and did German companies have some sort of jump on the rest. I realise that the defection by Degner more or less gave the technology to the world via the Japanese motorcycle industry. You mention that Dieter did not adopt the full Kaaden scheme until after 1961 - do you know when and which engine?
I visited the Konig factory a couple of years ago with Peter Konig and saw lots of bits and pieces, including a dozen or so clip on handle bars sitting on Kim Newcombe's bench. That brought a lump to the throat I can tell you.
There is a guy in the UK making a number of new 500 4's with chinese castings, East European cranks etc.
Do you know of any for sale over your side of the ditch. My good mate Rod Tingate, who was a friend of Kim's and a fellow GP rider, has built the most beautiful replica bike and would like to build some more.
I really appreciate your help.
All the best
Tim Hanna
Tim...Dieter told me about Kim and his accident at Silverstone during my first trip to the factory. Dieter was a full throttle...don't look back...forward thinking speed freak back then. In fact, he was like that always. Furiously trying to accomplish something that had either crossed his mind, or either trying to bring the thought to completion. When I showed up at his door unannounced in 1975 he gave me a whirlwind tour. Then he put me to work helping him get a speedway bike ready for testing in a few days.
The reason I bring this up is because I think anyone who had ever worked with Dieter knew this about him. I think it was probably the same way with Kim. Dieter Konig was afire with innovations, speed and accomplished drivers. I could tell when I talked with him about Kim that he was terribly sorry. He told me that during the race another driver spilled in the same corner that Kim did, but there were hay bales there this time and the driver walked away.
I have a tape that I did in Dieter's office in 1975. He talked about the exhaust and his first experiments with megaphones. I remember he told me he accidentally discovered the scavenging effects of the pipes when he ran a tube to get the fumes out of his test room. He noticed the horsepower increase. Dieter showed me the page in his journal when he wrote down the note. I made a corressponding note in my journal when I saw what he had recorded. I drew a picture and if I remember correcty wrote "auspoof". I don't know if I have any info that will help you at all, but I will try to put the taped interview back together and see what info I can find.
Tim Hanna:
FYI
Hans Krage, who was the long time Konig "factory" hydro driver, and also a very close friend of Dieter's, has a son named Peer Krage. Peer is a member on BRF and you can send him a PrivateMessage by accessing his name under the members list. Just click on "members list" at the top of the page and then look under "P" as in Peer Krage. You can then click on his name to send him a private message.
The reason you would want to contact him is he has a DVD made with the cooperation of Kim's widow. The DVD shows the development of the GP bike, both in the Konig factory and also a numerous tracks in Europe where it was raced, The DVD is about 30 minutes long and very well done. Peer was here in the US last fall at the World Championship boat races, visiting with Ralph Donald, who was a very close friend of his father. Peer showed the DVD at Ralph's home, and my wife and I along with Mike Ward and his wife (Mike is the UK Yamato dealer if you do not know him) had the pleasure of viewing it and it was very interesting. Perhaps Peer could arrange for you to have a copy of this very historic commentary/documentary on the development and racing of this bike, if you do not already have one or are not aware of it.
In addition to the GP bikes built at the Konig factory, there were also several BMW bikes built with Konig engines. These were street legal bikes. I believe they were powered by 350CC engines although I am not absolutely sure about that. Peer acquired one of those bikes several years ago and has completely restored it. It is the only bike that he knows of that is powered by Konig that still exists.
If you are not able to contact him let me know and perhaps I can be of further assistance in getting you two in touch.
I do not know when the first expansion chambers came out in Europe, but I built the first expansion chambers run on a 500 and 700 Konig in the U.S. I got the idea from a go cart engine builder in Kansas City and made them in 1969. At the time, all C and D konigs were running the "tin can" exhaust. I ran them at the Championships in Alexandria that year and Dieter looked at them there. The next year he came out with a better set for the big motors and they have evolved from there.
Rex Hall
Evidently Dieter was very aware of the performance gains to be had with expansion chamber type exhaust versus open pipe or megaphone type, much earlier than the time frame he made them available with 500 and 700 engines as Rex has posted about.
In a thread entitled "Konig Pipe Stingers" by Jeff Lytle, there is a picture of a brochure showing a 1961 FA Konig that is equipped with expansion chambers. Also Mike Ward, who has been a UIM observer at several WC races here and in Europe, and is the UK Yamato dealer, has some pictures taken at a 1964 European Championship of engines equipped with expansion chamber exhaust. He did not say whether they were Konig's or not.
I seem to remember that Homer Kincaid, who I believe won a "C" Hydro National Championship at DePue in the latter 1960's, was using the first set of "ZAK" pipes that Harry made. These differed from the later cast manifold type in that they were the first set Harry made and were completely fabricated by welding, i.e. no cast manifolds. This was definately prior to 1968, as I had gone to the Nationals in 1967 to look at equipment as I was planning on getting back into racing and wanted to see what was being used since I had not been racing for some time prior.
I think Bill Van has it right, Dieter put expansion chambers on the small motors in '61.
The first 500cc opposed VC motors were piston port intake, I'm pretty sure the year was 1966 (1965 if I am wrong); being replaced by the rotary valve intake in '67, but this motor was not APBA legal until '68 so we did not see them right away over here.
The VC motors seem to have been simultaneously released with regular expansion chambers and sound compliant "can" exhaust
If you access Peer Krage's name in the members list and then go to posts he has made, you will find pictures of both the GP bikes mentioned earlier and also a short story and pictures of the BMW/Konig he restored.
I think it is very evident that he knew about expansion chambers and the advantages of same in the early 60's at least. It would be interesting to know why he did not equip the motors being sent to the US with them until much later. The early expansion chamber/pipe setups were certainly a problem insofar as keeping them on the engine, i.e. broken brackets, difficulty with the sliding mechanism, and perhaps that had something to do with it. Also he did not equip the motors with them (4 cyl/opposed/rotary valve type) until after Harry ZAK had made the first sets of his design for Homer Kincaid, Wayne Baldwin, Ray Hardy, Billy Kurps, John Winzler, and others, and he (Dieter)then became aware of the fact that the "tin can" equipped motors were then being out performed by those equipped with expansion chambers, so perhaps in the interest in keeping the engines simple as far as things falling off, he chose to stay with the "tin can" until the use of others like Harry's forced the change. Perhaps cost could have also been a factor in not going to them until absolutely neccessary.
Perhaps Peer, Ralph Donald, or others that had a close relationship with him could shed light on this. In a lot of cases developments such as this are made by different folks at the same time, without the knowledge of the competing persons involved. That is what happened with the development of the jet engine prior to WWII by persons in both the UK and Germany The engines were developed in the same time frame but without the knowledge of the two inventors as to what the other was doing.