desilva delta wing

hello everyone, i'm new here but have been watching this site for awhile. i bought a boat from a neighbor that he said was a desilva delta wing about 6 years ago. i've been running it ever since with a yamato 202 just as a fun cottage racer. while refinishing the deck this spring i uncovered a section that said, driver jack kugler. does any one know some history about this boat? it also had a #v-100 on it. if i can figure out how to posta picture i will. but i can't even figure out how to add my avatar.

Jack is from Hamilton, Illinois and he won a National Championship with that boat in the mid 1980's. I only know of two of those designs. Todd Brinkman of Springfield, Illinois had the other. It was bigger and he ran a 500 and 700 cc motors on his. They were only legal for about a year as they were determined to not meet runabout rules.

Jack's son is still racing and won the Nationals this year in 350ccH. And, Ralph DeSilva is still building racing boats.

if you call Ralph De Silva @770/943/9494 and read him that # bcr 12868324 he will tell you about the boat

Boat was built in December 1986 24th boat built in 1986. There was more than 2 built.

Delta runabout, not to be confused with the Delta tunnel hull. I think these were allowed in runabout classes in Europe longer than the US ... until runabout racing disappeared in Europe

If you could get us a picture of the bottom from underneath sometime, that would be very educational.

Something else that should be added ... these boats were designed by the DeSilva brothers in response to a number of bad accidents in PRO runabout classes. Their hope was that they would be safer than earlier designs.

Unfortunately, they were declared illegal.

There was a PRO version in Atlanta for a long time. I believe that it ran very well before being classified as illegal. I am not sure where this boat resides today, but I suspect in either Atlanta or Naples, FL.

David, I thought they were all PRO or Antique alky boats ... look at the transom of this one, it is built up

If I Remember Right, A Brat Cramer Had One In Napa ,ca..ran A 50 Cu In Evinruder On It..when He Pass Away..this Was About 1971-2 It Was At J&g Auto Marine...along With Other Race Boats In The Back Of The Shop...tryed To Talk Them Out Of It..because It Was Outlawed.
But Had To Go To Veitman For A Year And When I Got Back All The Race Stuff Was Gone...i Wanted To Put A 44 Merc On It..and Make It A Sit Down Model...:d

the transom was really short, maybe 13", but it had room and a space to add additional height. i found a friend who used to play with boat racing, but went into horses,(racing) and racing Pylon planes. this 202 mota was run maybe three times. he said you have a kneel down boat? you need this mota. so i gave him 500 bucks, rebuilt the carb put it on the desilva and it run great. i had to raise the transom, from the conversations i've had the 202 has a taller mid. i thought boat doesn't have a legal class, mota doesn't have a legal class,---------good combo for the cottage

The motor is a legal OSY 400 motor, the boat would be a legal hydro in Mod

Bob Dunlap in Savanah Ga. has one too. He might even sell it.

The Delta for the most part, was the end of the Desilva's active building for the pro division. The boat was superior to the conventional boat, safer, turned better etc. It was so superior that it was ruled to be illegal after they had built about a dozen of them. It wiped up the existing boats and there was a lot of griping that it was unfair etc. The Delta obsoleted everything overnight.

When the boat was outlawed, the Desilva's basically said we brought a revolutionary hull to the division that will improve the safety of the runabout and you guys don't want it. We have invested a bunch of time and money, we have built about a dozen of these things and now you tell us its' illegal?

Basically, when they pulled out, this opened the door for the Krier boat. If they were to run the Delta and the Krier together, my money would go on the Delta.

Tim

I remember those DeSilva's too........I saw them on the USTS circuit for 1 summer, Todd Brinkman and Pete Voss each had one that they ran in 500R.

I remember the day that Todd blew his over too.

Funny now, thinking back,..........The PRO Division was always "Run what ya' brung", and I suppose that's why I liked it so much:

-Stick to your displacement class, run a hydro in a hydro class, and a runabout in a runabout class, and burn fuel that was liquid at normal atmospheric temperature :)

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Originally Posted by Tim Weber

The Delta for the most part, was the end of the Desilva's active building for the pro division. The boat was superior to the conventional boat, safer, turned better etc. It was so superior that it was ruled to be illegal after they had built about a dozen of them. It wiped up the existing boats and there was a lot of griping that it was unfair etc. The Delta obsoleted everything overnight.

Tim

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And I agree, I was there the years it happened. It happened fast too!
The thing I could never figure out though is why the PRO Commision "Let" it happen. Custom engines were coming out of the woodwork hot and heavy in those days (Nicholson/Yamaha, Harrision/Yamaha), as well as new improved factory engines from Konig and Yamato. These engines were miles ahead of the older engine technology, and everyone was expected to step up and replace their older engines with new if they wanted to finish in the money. This was normal in the PRO Division...........you either did that or built your own to keep up with those who did. "Buy one, or finish behind one"

So........Why did it happen to the Delta?
Boats were cheaper than engines, and no one bitched about having to spend 4K to play fast on a new engine back then. It seemed really unfair to me then, and still does today.

Anaywayzzz..............Cool cottage toy! I would love to have it!
A word of advice? store it well, put it away carefully, It'll be worth something (to a collector (Ewwwwwwww!)) one day.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Lytle

So........Why did it happen to the Delta?

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The open bottom is seen as an aerodynamic device. Runabouts are not supposed to be flown off the water/take advantage of aerodynamic lift in any way.

Like the politician who is saying a lot these days, "first I voted for it and then I voted against it", that is what happened to the Delta runabout.

The following is how it happened, with possibly a few minor differences, but the general outline is as follows:

DeSilva's approached the commission about a new type runabout they had in mind, but wanted approval of it first before spending the time and money involved to bring it to market. Commisssion studied the proposal and decided it "met the spirit of the runabout rules" in effect at the time and legalized it. DeSilvas's built and sold several (not sure exactly how many, Todd Brinkman still has a 20 year old new one in the rafters). Certain individuals became upset the boat was legalized and raised hell and a petition to ban it. This was done over the winter after the boat was approved. Politics won out and the boat was banned after several were sold and run for a while. DeSilva's and the buyers lost their investments, and as previously mentioned the experience soured them on further development of runabouts for the ALKY classes except for the Antique division.

As previously mentioned in another post, the PRO category is supposed to be "run what you brung". The boat was developed to answer a problem that existed at the time, namely the large runabout classes (500 and 700) were losing competitors as speeds and blow overs went up and numbers participating went down. I have talked to Todd several times over the years about the performance of the boat, and he always said it was NO faster, all factors the same, i.e., same setup, prop, etc. Where it excelled was it was a much safer boat around the course, straightaway and turning. As to him blowing it over once, I don't remember that either personally or him mentioning it. Could be, I just don't know. I will ask him next time we talk.

Also as mentioned earlier, that experience soured the DeSilva's on PRO boat building. Can't say as I blame them, the way it was handled.

"I voted for it, and then I voted against it" Sounds real familiar these days.

I never saw a Delta run, but have seen one example personally. It looks like a Mod VP from the OPC category back in the day. To my eye, it does look like a boat that I would consider a monohaul. If it was saver, perhaps it would have been the way to go. An unfortunate episode that we can all learn from going forward.

Is the runabout that Jim Kirts has a desilva and if so how is it different from the deltawing? Here a picture from this years Pro Nationals.

Jim is in a Delta 2.

I know quite a bit about this boat as I have been in 8 of them. I driven 4 CSR's, a 25ssr which was Jack Kugler 125 boat and 3 antique C-service runabouts.

Jim will do quite well with it once he gets rid of the engine gremlins.

It doesn't have the same bottom as the original Delta. The bottom is more conventional to comply with the rules. The boat has lots of little trick things in it.

The boat is so different that it really hasn't met with acceptance yet. I have had some success with the boat. Those that have seen me run will admit its' no slouch. I have already seen a few of the design ideas creep into a few other hulls.

Tim

Tim; -while we are on radical DeSilva designs, what is this,
a hydro or runabout, legal?, apparently called a "wedge"?.

Tim; -is this one of the 'DELTA IIs' ?
I think you were trying to sell it to me that day ;)

That boat looks somewhat similar (can't see the bottom, so can't be sure) to a boat built by Bill and Ralph in the late 60's or early 70's as a C Service Hydro. It was a tunnel boat completely, and was brought to Kansas City for the Leavendusky's (Butch and Stan Sr.) to test. I helped them test it on the Missouri River north of Kansas City, Ks. I don't remember the exact results, but I don't believe it was as fast as the Marchetti Hydro they were running at the time that set many records and won many Championships, including National (APBA) and World (NOA) titles.

I think they still lived in California then and were on the way thru from the west coast headed somewhere else. Maybe Tim can ask. I am curious what happened to that boat and whether anyone ever had any success with it.

Sorry, no bottom pix, but if I recall it was a '4pt tunnel'.
Don Saulsbury, western NY runs it now with a 4-60.

The boat you refer to as the wedge was a boat built for the antique F class with a 4-60 on it. David Riser drove it at the nationals in Depere Wisconsin.
It's sort of a single step, hydro and tunnel in one.

The boat on my trailer with the busted nose was the first Delta 2 that Ralph built for me. It was a experimental boat with a 40" bottom. It turned amazingly well but it was a handful. I blew it over at Ocoee that day going into the first turn and then again at Jesup. With that wide bottom it had lots of lift and it was twitchy. The stuff I am running now is much more driveable and they have a 34" bottom.

I sold the boat in the pic to a collector in South Carolina. He was going to put a KG-7 on it and play around with it. It could have been yours!

Tim

Here are 4 pics of the Wedge that Brian was talking about. As you can see the transom was built up to use the 4-60 on it. I don't know what it was originally designed for. I'm currently working on the 4-60(stock pumper powerhead), installing steel rods, aftermarket heads, etc. Hoping to get another 1200 or so rpm's from the stock 4600 it is turning in the picture from the AOMCI East Sidney meet in 2005.

When was this boat built??

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Originally Posted by Mark75H

The motor is a legal OSY 400 motor, the boat would be a legal hydro in Mod

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Our boat won OSY400 this year at Depue with the same motor. We borrowed it from Bob Wartinger.

My understanding is there were 4 (they were prototypes I think) built in the late 80's. There is a stamping on a floor frame that is 88 ? (can't remember but is lower than 4). With the 2 bottom fins it and large 4-60 l/u fin, it doesn't like to turn at least not at the speed it is at now.

I have one of them. I have cut the step off the center pod but haven't had a chance to run it yet with that modification. My center pod's step was deeper than the one shown. When you tried to turn the center pod would settle down on that front step and the front just walked around to the outside no matter how hard you had the motor cranked the other way.

My boat also made a wake so big other racers refused to go on the race course with it. I hit the wake at speed myself at one race and came about 2 feet off the water (but it stayed completely level). I asked Jim Russell about reducing the wake and he correctly guessed that the center pod was deeper than the sponsons. He said a change to shorter than the sponsons would probably significantly reduce the wake. At the transom, my center pod is about 5/8 below the sponsons. I plan on cutting off about an inch of the pod.

On mine, the tunnels are symmetrical, but the left sponson is not full depth. As if it is designed to lean a little to the left to turn.

The boat did not seem to drive any differently with high rake or low rake props as far as speed or turning, but I could feel the difference in the seat of my pants. It has very good speed and acceleration, I never topped it out on a race course.

My boat also differs from the one in the picture with my transom being flush with the sponsons and not inset.