Building A looper Beast

[R Austin]

Well the virus has not got me yet. Sure has got the summer screwed up. Along with all facets of life.
Constantine antique meet was a couple of weeks ago and did not make that. The engine sets on the dyno where it was placed last August after the Constantine meet last year.

Had trouble with my right knee last spring and summer with walking. X-rays showed a good joint without excessive wear. After a couple months of monitoring the condition an MRI was finally done and revealed a cracked femur in the knee joint. When I ran the boat in Constantine, I had no trouble kneeling, just walking. So, 3 weeks after Constantine, I had a partial replacement of the knee. Just the end of the femur and the end of the bone in the lower leg the femur mates to. That pretty much took car of the last of the summer.

I did finally look at the ignition system and did the testing of the stator windings. The low speed windings were way out of spec. Removed the flywheel replaced with a CDI High Performance stator. I also pull the top main bearing out and remachined the stator and trigger mounting surfaces as I needed to open up the clearance between the flywheel and the stator. The block for a ADI system is about 3/16 inch shorter on the top end. I had redone the top main cap upon discovery rather than shorting the block because the engine had been assembled when the problem was realized. The flywheel had touched the stator so the modification was made.

The fire power of the ignition after the replacement of the stator is absolutely powerful. It spans a 1/2 inch air gap and looks and sounds scary, like it could really hurt you really bad. From the beginning when I first set the ignition system up. It had no where near the gap jumping power it has now. So I think the stator wind has been a problem from the beginning.






Maybe not a good thing to do but i reinstalled the dual plug heads. I am sure the system has the fire power to make them work. The dual plug heads are also higher compression. 16cc vs 20cc which is a significant number. With fuel injection vs the carbs that these heads were last used with, and the improved dyno performance, I can confirm there performance.

The photo of the single plug heads, sort of confirms a combustion problem by the coloring of the chambers. 1,3 & 5 are from one system and 2,4 & 6 are from the other system and coloring of the 1,3 & 5 look like a problem existed.






So much for all that. I hope to run on the dyno in the next few weeks and continue to dial in the ECU. I can do 30 second info down loads for review. 30 seconds does not sound like long until you try holding it.

[Fastjeff57]

I too run CDI's similar ignition system on an old Mark 78. That tiny spark coil of theirs bothered me, so I ran it with the much larger Merc coil (and it worked fine. Have yet to sea trail that setup, however.)

Hope your knee is better 'cause your project has a boatload of supporters eager to see it succeed (like me!)

Jeff

[J-Dub]

For what it’s worth, here are my experiences with Six Looper ignitions.
When I originally got my 60” Looper put together I thought I would simply and somewhat modernize the ignition with a CDI box to run the Thunderbolt Ignition, why not, right?
Having had some successful experience with the original Mercury Box as well as the CDI Box on gas 44’s and 66’s I AssUMe’d it would be fine on the looper. WRONG!
So I got it on there, check for spark, set the timing, and we’re ready to fire it up. Right? NO! We pulled the string a few times and it’ll pop and fart but not fire... Must be the battery! NOPE! Must be a fuel issue. NOPE! (This is the short version of the story too!)
After significant reluctance, I finally gave in to my dads demands to “Put the F’n Green Mercury Box on it and 24 volts!” So I did to show him that the CDI box is just fine... First pull, lights right off and runs like a sewing machine.
Dad and I were both pretty stubborn, but he clearly was right in this situation. Unfortunately he’s gone now And I can’t ask for his advice anymore.
Moral to the story is that I learned it takes a lot more amps and voltage to light a high compression alcohol engine.
Disclaimer: I am far from an electrical engineer, I learned most of this by being a good listener, and making some mistakes...

[R Austin]

Some place at some time I think that I have shared this story before, so here it goes again.
1966 John McMullen (M-14) purchased the first 6 cylinder Quincy looper. He also purchased the 15' jones hydro for that new engine. At that time the only ignition available for the six cylinder was the battery ignition that we had been running on the deflector 6's. Merc had just released the breaker point version of the CDI ignition but it was really unknown in the racing circle. They struggled the whole season with that engine. It would start most times but not run on all 6 and was fouling plugs.
Fast forward to spring of 1967, I purchased the second Quincy 6. I purchased all the parts and assembled the engine with my internals from the deflector, with its reeds reworked for the Looper. Chris sent a note with the parts and said I have charged you for a new ignition system. It is not yet available, and I will forward to you upon receipt. This engine must use this new electronic ignition system.
Upon receipt and knowing the critical need for a 12 volt plus supply, and no charging system on the Looper. Running a total loss system.
I called Mercury and got hold of the tech people and asked about my concerns of voltage drop with the total loss system. Their response was, you can run up to a 30 volt supply without damage to the system.
So for me. I ran 24 volts on the system from the beginning. Engine ran really clean, no cracking and popping. I did some testing later, in an attempt to take out some weight and removed one battery. Ran, with 12 volts, but with noted popping and cracking, not clean and crisp as before. Reinstalled battery, to 24 volts, and ran clean as before without any other changes. At one time I even ran it with 24 volts on the capacitor / box, and 12 volts on the trigger circuit and also ran fine.
So with all that, Anyone who wants to run a Looper for just fun or show, do it justice and save yourself the grief of fowled plugs and hard starting.
Just a comparison of the fuel required for a Looper vs the deflector equivalent, the carbs looked the same but were different. They both were adjusted to about 1 1/4 turns open, however the Looper carb had a .060 fixed orifice drilled in the center post across from the needle opening as a fix jet.
Therefore the demand on the ignition system to fire this amount of fuel plus the higher cylinder pressure.

[R Austin]

Guess if I want to stay on the sticky list I need to update the thread a little more often. Has been a while, time sure flying by.
I have run the engine on the dyno a few times as I continue to dial in the fuel injection map. I have reinstalled the dual plug heads with the chamber volumes cut from 20cc's to 16cc's. The ignition system, at least on the dyno, seems to be functioning properly and firing the dual coils effectively.
Will run again this week and clean up and reinstall on the boat. Will be taking to the Pentwater Antique Wooden Boat show on the 27th and then look for an AOMCI event. Possibly Lapeer Mi. in September.
Will See!

[Dew1us]

Guess if I want to stay on the sticky list I need to update the thread a little more often. Has been a while, time sure flying by.
I have run the engine on the dyno a few times as I continue to dial in the fuel injection map. I have reinstalled the dual plug heads with the chamber volumes cut from 20cc's to 16cc's. The ignition system, at least on the dyno, seems to be functioning properly and firing the dual coils effectively.
Will run again this week and clean up and reinstall on the boat. Will be taking to the Pentwater Antique Wooden Boat show on the 27th and then look for an AOMCI event. Possibly Lapeer Mi. in September.
Will See!

If you do go to Lapeer let us know I might swing up to see it.

[R Austin]

Made it to the AOMC Constantine Super meet and ran the Beast and my favorite from the past, the 1964 Jones with the Modified 75H. Just a sweet running motor and handling boat. The old 6 ran flawlessly. Did throw a blade off one of my favorite Record props.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeZlRBmzyso

Got to run the Beast again. Not where I want it to be yet but sure has the potential to go. Was more about feeling the boat and motor combination out than speed. What I know at this point is that acceleration is strong. I held it longer down the front straight a way on the last 2 laps but they did not get recorded unless some attendee has them. If you do let me know.

I feel that there is something amiss about the fuel injection system as plug coloring is all over the place. Nothing even close to consistent. Looking into that now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gBME7X_mxk