Butts Aerowing-The Only Way To Fly

[Jeff Lytle]

Somewhere, I have a couple of pics of the boat and Raymond rigging it. I will try to find to post.

I mentioned a video I have to Dave Dalton before in this thread. It shows a heat of FGP with Dave Dalton in his F500 RawsonDalt (hee hee!), Vince Gresko in a F44H Rawsoncraft, Dave Rawson in a F500H Rawsoncraft, and Roy Alexander in his F700H Butts.
Roy was on the inside and battled Dave for all three laps. The lead swapped several times with Dave coming out as the eventual winner. I asked Roy several years later about that race and asked if was making a show of it. The fact was, Roy had an older 700cc with the 40mm carbs and Dave had a newer 500 with 48mm carbs. Although the 700's were well known for their "Kick in the arse" acceleration, Dave's newer updated Konig had what it took to win the drag race to the finish.

My last hydro ride was in a 5 port 500cc Pugh rig. The engine was top notch, and very competitive. Much to my surprise, it had everything my 700 did, including heaps of punch out of the corners. It would run well over 100 mph in competition on a USTS course.......I was very impressed! (and shook for an hour!)

[crankbearing]

Hey Jeff,

I have to see that video. PLEAAAAASE!. AS for the designs. I actually have all of Dave R's drawings here and that is what these were taken and drawn from a lot of changes in where the "s" relief is and how much. As well as the deck lines. John's boat almost had a turnaway sponson bottom if you know what I mean. it almost look like half a loop off a roller coaster ride.

I found the gresco boat in TO, hanging in a garage. Actually Jesse Loukes found it and I traded him a boat that did not need any work for it. I though I have some pics but I must have lost them in my computer crash. Any how I hope to pick it up at the torc luncheon next week. I verified it with Dave and it is Vince's boat.

David's 500 was certainly fast and it was nothing like anyone else's on the water after Doug Doran got hold off it. Remember that the engine was a motorcycle block not the outboard block. That made it different from the get go.

I do not know if I told this story but when the went to the worlds in Havasu, Mr Konig was there and turned up his nose and walked away from Dave's pits because the motor did not look like anything that konig was selling at the time. Then Dave went out and did a couple test runs and you could not keep Mr. Konig out of the Rawson pits. That was the year that they blew up 4 or 5 motors in a row leaving the Konig pits. All from a little ole Gallon of Nitro they borrowed from the Rawson pits but Mr. Konig used the whole gallon across the 4 or 5 outfits not the capful you are supposed to add.

Regards,

[Master Oil Racing Team]

Looking through my 1974 binder I found this photo of a pre Aerowing Butts hydro. The first Aerowing was built in 1969. Tim only built two hydroplanes with the sharp bow. The first hydro he built was similar looking to a bull nose DeSilva or a Dubinski. Karl Williams bought that first hydro. This boat is either the second or third hydroplane that Tim Butts built, and would be from 1967 or 1968. Joe Barto bought those first two along with the Quincy Loopers that Tim ran back then.

[jrome]

I think between my self and wayne we are going to get Tim to come to Depue to tell us about the first aerowing.

[David Weaver]

Wayne,

In the last photo of Tim's Boat, it appears that P-102 is in the background. That would have been Jane Smith from Ridley, PA.

Depue looks just the same today as in that photo.

David Weaver

[John Schubert T*A*R*T]

I think between my self and wayne we are going to get Tim to come to Depue to tell us about the first aerowing.

Joe, and also Wayne. There seems to be a lot of talk about who is coming & who will taked to to come and several talking about bringing equipment. It we are to have a reception, I need a head count, but in order to make a committment to the American Legion so I can fix a price and communicate it to every potential reunion person, plus current racers, I need the lists from all of you to be contacted. I've asked Ronnie Hill at least 6 times, I've asked you Joe & Wayne at least twice before. I've asked Bill Hosler/Ralph Donald, I've asked others. The ONLY person who has sent something and has put the 2004 USTS roster in the mail to me is Cookie Hooghkirk. Unless we get a head count, there can't be a reception unless someone(s) want to sponsor it. Again, without the head count & follow up communications, we can't provide a hat or shirt with the reunion date on it & more importantly, without names we have no one to communicate to for the silent auction. After the 1st of the year I'll attempt to contact all those that committed to helping me at Depue this year. I must have help from all of you guys as I don't have a clue as to everyone that might be willing to participate from all over the US.

Sorry to be so candid, but at the moment it's frustrating to me.

[wboxell]

i'm new to the site (10 days or so) and as somebody called it, i've fallen into the wayback machine and i can't get out. i crewed for tim off and on from the mid 70's - the mid 80's. i roped that 700cc monster over at dayton in 77. the greatest pro race i've ever seen.

tim built two boats for me. the first was before the 75 season for e-mod. the second was before the 77 season. tim sold me the 250cc/350cc boat he had in process for himself. tim had a passing thought or two about running OD at dayton. during a winter meeting about the race tim said he might run that race for the reasons wayne has given. tom kirts said NO A-hydro driver is going to win that race. that lit a very large fire in tim. tim said i have the boat for you. threads on those later.

i know tim is going to be at depue and can fix any mistakes in my story's.

the genesis of windwalker happened at a race or straitaway in the early 80's. we were bs ing and some guy is looking at tim's boat. really looking. we were waiting for the tape measure or large sheets of tracing paper to come out. we (tim) did a ha how's it going. turns out he was a RC hull builder. tim and the guy (tim to fill in name) talked and i listened. i do not think tim had seen those boats run. i had shortly before that. at that time they were 4-4.5 ft boats running 70-80mph. do the math, maybe 250 scale mph.

the old man illness kicks in and i don't remember the time from the first meeting (talk,bs session) till windwalker. i remember talking to tim and he would say he had talked to the rc guy about this and that. then one day i'm talking to tim and he says i"m building the mechanical boat.

the name of the boat should have been the none wind walker. wayne and others have talked about the aerowing design. the stall of the leading edge, the s bottom, and so forth. this allowed the aerowing to fly high yet give the driver a chance to catch it when a gust of wind comes along. this boat had very little aero lift in it.

tim and i talked, he was going to fla and try to set a straitaway record. it was at (help joe) some canel near or out the south end of lake okochobee(sp). i told tim i would love to but i'm a little short on money. a little later he called and said if i buy some gas will ya come. i said h?ll yes. thanks tim! what ended up happening was my wife and two kids meet tim and joe in orlando. tim bought my gas but i paid for a couple nights in orlando and three two day passes to disney world while tim, joe, and i went on to my disney world (anything boat racing).what i remember about the drive was every third song was on the road again by willie. thank joe.

we pulled into the race course(canel) and it looked good. it was strait, shelterd from the wind, calm, ect. a perfect place for speed. we got out of the car, streached our legs, and tim said what the fu?k is that. maybe i said what the f?ck is that. we all looked very closely. there was a living, swimming, breathing log. it was a manatee. i looked at tim just in time to see the color drain out of his face(mine also). the folks there said don't fret we have people chase them off when the boats are running. tim and i looked at each other. no word was said but we are both thinging it just takes one of those to make for a very bad day.

as wayne says more later

[wboxell]

the fla story continues

tim and i had talked several times leading up to the trip. the 700cc record was certainly the first target. it was a little north of 110mph (wayne may still have held it) however when bs ing we thought that the overall outboard record which at that time was around 135mph was approachable.

that old man illness runs full tilt at this point. we got little practice. a couple runs? not much. the boat was (per tim) not comfortable (banging across the water) and the motor wasn't running right. with regard to the boat, the mechanical boat needed a little more lift or more speed? . if you look at wayne's pics the only lift really was the little wings mounted behind the front sponsens. as tim said the RC boat doesn't have a driver. easy to put the throttle down an see what happens. joe rome had his new camcorder. we looked at the tape (post it or a link it joe). there was spray coming off the fin and intermittenly going right into the carbs. i think we delt with that issue.

with all that said we still felt that the 700cc record was in reach. the outboard record was not.

the task of breaking the 700cc record was about to get MUCH more difficult. BIG George took his 700cc out a few boats before us and pushed the record a little north of 120mph. wow! tim said ohhhh george. that really put the record into that hold the throttle down and see what happens range. i think we ran somewhere between the old and new record.

when tim came off the course we bench raced for a while. congratulated big george. what a run. we bench raced on and tim said he wasn't sure he wanted to risk his life to break the outboard record for nothing ($). during this project (windwalker) he had talked to some factory (merc or omc) guy and ask him what it would be worth to them to set the record. they would help with stuff, maybe, but as far as getting paid? the response was it would be the biggest feather tim ever had in his cap. tim responded i've got all the feathers i need. i said i'll drive it. really tim i'll drive it!!! tim said get in there. i layed in the windwalker a tim and i talked about little cockpit changes. the end result was he would think about it.

the trip back up to orlando was fun. proving again a not so good time (result) racing is better then being any where else.

i talked to tim a week or so later. can i? can i? can i!!! drive windwalker??? tim said bill, i know your wife, your kids, your dad and mom. if something happened, i would not be able to handle it. my response was makes sense to me. he said if i decide to do this i'll get a driver like ????? or ?????. i'll never tell. they weren't guys he didn't like he just didn't know them personally. wayne thats why you didn't drive windwalker.

[Master Oil Racing Team]

I was already out of it by then anyway Bill. It would have been fun to test it just to see what it would do, but we were never a kilo team. Our attempts were all with the same props and setups we raced with. Our records would reflect the speeds we would reach on a good wide course if we were out front. Of course we had good equipment or we couldn't have established any records, but had people like Gerry Walin set out in earnest to up the C,D or F records back in the 70's they would have been way out of reach. We knew though that on any given good day that we were running within reach of the records as they existed at that time.

I always felt that with a straightaway boat, a trick lower unit, separate water pick up, a special purpose prop with the pitch and diameter we wanted and maybe some water injection for a little boost getting up, that the D or F could approach 130. But that would take months of testing in different conditions before we could feel comfortable making that long two way trip. Competition racing was what we were in the game for and at any time I always had a feel for what was over the edge when at full speed because I had a lot of time in the cockpit doing that.

I have great admiration for guys like Gerry Walin, Hu Entrop, Jim and Sean McKean, Bob Wartinger, Dan Kirts, Big George Andrews, John Sherlock and others that have taken hydros to those kind of limits.

If Tim had a capsule on that little dude and I had some hours behind it with a full blown safety crew and ambulance standing by while we tested the limits of windwalker, I might have wanted to give 130 a try. I am anxious to find out from Sean and Dan how their record runs felt. I bet they can still feel it today.

[wboxell]

wayne, the trick straitaway stuff you talked about, you know much better then i, however the capsule is the only way to fly. i remember talking to tim in a motel room some where (77-79) about the layed back boat. i'm an indy car addict. i was stuck on the idea of a boat that looked like an indy car. strapped in and if st?t happened, off you go skipping done the race course. a friend of mine was sitting, listening and tim and i were going a 100mph talking about the layed back boat. later he(james) said you guys are really into this. james, heres your sign.

i also what to hear what north of 130 feels like.

i still wonder what windwalker (or it's brother/sister) could have done. the boat wasn't really built as a straitaway boat only. it was an edgy first try at a direction(rc mechanical boat). much like tim's first aerowing design, it needed devolopment.

where is wimdwalker?????

hopefully we'll find out in depue.