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Thread: What 2 stroke oil yall runnin?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul8tr View Post
    What are you using now since rejuvenate has been cancelled?
    Rejuvenate was discontinued last year. I mentioned that in post 11 of this thread. Up until now it has still been available at West Marine and a few other places. West had it on clearance and I tried to order it but they were out of stock. I just ordered another gallon on line from another supplier so I should have about 2 gallons of the stuff left. At the time it was discontinued Mercury had said it was going to be "rebranded" into a high performance oil, but that hasn't happened so far as I know. When mine is gone I'm hoping that something else will be available. I can get the Multifuel oil, but at $100/gallon that is about twice as expensive than Rejuvenate (which wasn't cheap either at $50/gallon shipped), so who knows...

    One other thing, I'm not the only folks who seem to like this stuff.. Here's a link to the folks a Wiendant racing who also have been recommending it...

    http://www.wptracing.com/2-cycle-lubricants

    I was looking to see if I could find some more on line as the supplies seem to be drying up and cam across that page. Did also score another gallon so now I have three gallons.

  2. #72
    Team Member zul8tr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowjacket View Post
    Rejuvenate was discontinued last year. I mentioned that in post 11 of this thread. Up until now it has still been available at West Marine and a few other places. West had it on clearance and I tried to order it but they were out of stock. I just ordered another gallon on line from another supplier so I should have about 2 gallons of the stuff left. At the time it was discontinued Mercury had said it was going to be "rebranded" into a high performance oil, but that hasn't happened so far as I know. When mine is gone I'm hoping that something else will be available. I can get the Multifuel oil, but at $100/gallon that is about twice as expensive than Rejuvenate (which wasn't cheap either at $50/gallon shipped), so who knows...

    One other thing, I'm not the only folks who seem to like this stuff.. Here's a link to the folks a Wiendant racing who also have been recommending it...

    http://www.wptracing.com/2-cycle-lubricants

    I was looking to see if I could find some more on line as the supplies seem to be drying up and cam across that page. Did also score another gallon so now I have three gallons.
    West no longer has rejuvenate. The link on Wiendant racing about rejuvenate comes up as jibberish symbols? On the Mercury racing site Blog they note Mercury Racing 2 stroke oil that replaces their NLA 2 cycle performance blend which was used on the high rpm race engines and is noted in this link (see also the 3rd answer in the link):

    http://www.mercuryracing.com/blog/vital-fluids/

    What do you know about this 2 stroke oil? Only available in 3 x 1gal lots.
    " Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin

    Location: SW Orlando, Fl

  3. #73
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    The Wiendant link works for me, if it doesn't work I'd go to the Wiendant performance technology home page and then go to the racing products drop down menu and then click on the 2 cycle lubricant page. There is a discussion on their recommendations for high performance 2 cycle applications.

    As I noted in the early post I had Emailed Mercury's manager of aftermarket lubricants, Heidi Stark-Klebs and discussed with her the differences between Rejuvenate and the Multifuel oil. She had said they were similar, but that the Multifuel oil had more detergents in it to help remove the deposits from heavy fuels, and more lubricity to contend with the washing of the cylinders with heavy fuel. Since the Mulitfuel oil was on back order early in our heavy fuel test program, we used the Rejuvenate for our early testing and switched over to the Multifuel later when it became available.

    I also discussed with her that I was using the Rejuvenate in my race motor and had learned from West Marine that it had been discontinued. I indicated I was disappointed that it had been discontinued since it was obviously "good stuff". She indicated at the time that it wasn't really going to go away, and that it was being reformulated slightly, and basically re-released as a high performance racing oil. My guess is that the 2 stroke racing oil that was released in the end of March is the product that she was describing about 6 months earlier. Previously for the 200 ROS racing motor they had recommended the Multifuel oil. Now they are saying this new 2 Stroke Racing oil is usable in that engine.

    Just conjecture on my part but putting 2 and 2 together, I'm guessing that the new oil is the rebranded Rejuvenate. The price is about the same, but having to buy 3 gallons as a time kinda sucks. I don't know why they would do that, but when I run out of Rejuvenate I'll go to the new 2 stroke racing oil.

  4. #74
    Team Member zul8tr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowjacket View Post
    The Wiendant link works for me, if it doesn't work I'd go to the Wiendant performance technology home page and then go to the racing products drop down menu and then click on the 2 cycle lubricant page. There is a discussion on their recommendations for high performance 2 cycle applications. ...................

    .
    I have no problem with getting on the Wiendant site and getting to their 2 cycle lubricants but once there this internal link gives jibberish:

    ........More information on Mercury Rejuvenate oil p/n 858102Q01 can be found at www.rejuvenateyourengine.com....

    Does this internal link work for you?

    Note the new mercury racing 2 stroke oil they now recommend for race engines and others is a TCW3 oil. Does that mean it is limited to 6800 rpm conditions per TCW3 specs or it greatly exceeds that TCW3 spec per Mercury Racing? The OptiMax 200XS SST is rated at 8000 rpm.

    http://www.mercuryracing.com/outboar...ssst/specs.php

    How will that fare with this oil and the TCW3 rpm spec?

    Was Rejuvenate a TCW3 oil?

    Agreed buying 3 gals min sucks! Maybe that will change as the oil makes its way to distributers?
    " Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin

    Location: SW Orlando, Fl

  5. #75
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    No, that link doesn't work anymore. Mercury probably deleted that link when they discontinued the oil.

    TCW3 is a rating test. It is run at 6,000 rpm on a water cooled engine. That doesn't mean that the oil doesn't have lubrication properties that are better, the oil could be fine for higher speed, you just don't know. The oil can be substantially better, but with only a TCW3 rating it is simply a crap shoot. All the rating means is that the oil was tested on a water cooled engine to 6,000 rpm, didn't have high wear, and it didn't form a high level of deposits, AND the oil doesn't contain heavy metal cleaning agents that would pollute rivers and streams.

    Oils rated JASO-FD or ISO-EGD are tested on an air cooled two stroke high speed engine. This is a much tougher test for lubricity and heat tolerance since the air cooled engine runs a lot hotter than a typical water cooled engine and the engine speeds are higher. If you are running higher speeds you need an oil rated for higher speeds.

    There is no reason you can't run multiple rating tests on an oil and achieve multiple ratings. You just have to pass the tests. The problem is that additives that provide high temperature and high speed lubricity tend to also not be compatible with a TCW3 rating because they don't meet the pollution requirements of TCW3.

    There are some oils that are rated both TCW3 AND JASO-FD. That's what you want if you are running an outboard at high RPM.

    Rejuvenate doesn't have a rating on the bottle. In some Mercury pages it was described as being rated to JASO-FD. In addition, on the jug it specifically states that the oil was "recommended for water cooled and air cooled 2 cycle engines....". I'm sure that Rejuvenate could pass the TCW3 test in terms of deposit formation and lubricity, but I also strongly suspect that Rejuvenate wasn't rated as TCW3 because it has heavy metal detergents in it that are not compatible with TCW3 requirements. That doesn't mean it won't work in an outboard, it just means that it most likely doesn't meet the pollution aspects of TCW3.

    This is why Mercury had to reformulate it, because it wasn't "legal" as a TCW3 because of heavy metal pollution. The new 2 stroke racing oil has a TCW3 rating, but it also has better lubrication properties since it is recommended for high speed motors and is likely good for high speed use. The problem is that racing outboards also run at high temperatures, more like an air cooled 2 stroke than a typical pontoon boat put-putting around an inland lake. For that reason, you for sure don't want to use an oil with just a TCW3 rating since it may not have the high speed lubricity you need if you are running high rpm's.

    I now have 3 gallons of "Rejuvenate" in the garage, and hopefully that will last me a good while. After that I'll use Multifuel oil since I have access to that too, but if the 2 stroke racing oil is as good as the Rejuvenate, I'll use that since it is less expensive than the Multifuel oil.

  6. #76
    Team Member zul8tr's Avatar
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    The TCW3 testing is done at different WOT rpm and less than 6000 depending on the engine trested according to the NMMA guide.

    http://www.nmma.org/certification/ce...oil/tc-w3.aspx

    So I suppose Mercury oils like Premium Plus TCW3 oil as they state exceed the NMMA tests since Mercury specifies its use in some of their 2 stroke engines that are rated at higher rpms than the NMMA tests. Does Mercury do their own tests or ship them out to independent labs? I hope the latter!
    " Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin

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  7. #77
    Team Member Smokin' Joe's Avatar
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    Evinrude XD100 synthetic burns extremely clean and lubricates extremely well.
    We've used it for several years now.
    We run it 25:1 in our EP motor (6700-7000 RPM), 45SS (7000-7500 RPM) and in
    our small motors (1980s era Evinrude 15 and Johnson 35) turning 6100-6500.
    We would run 50:1 only below 6000 RPM but we don't run a motor that runs that slowly.



    Quote Originally Posted by zul8tr View Post
    The TCW3 testing is done at different WOT rpm and less than 6000 depending on the engine trested according to the NMMA guide.

    http://www.nmma.org/certification/ce...oil/tc-w3.aspx

    So I suppose Mercury oils like Premium Plus TCW3 oil as they state exceed the NMMA tests since Mercury specifies its use in some of their 2 stroke engines that are rated at higher rpms than the NMMA tests. Does Mercury do their own tests or ship them out to independent labs? I hope the latter!

  8. #78
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    Default my take on 2 cycle lube

    Quote Originally Posted by biggdave92 View Post
    I've always used yamalube but i'm looking for something better. What's everyone runnin?
    Yes, I know this thread has been on a while, but here is my two cents. I used to fix up old antique outboards years ago. I have recently advanced to racing engines of the "B" class variety. Now, I know some of you might find this as to be "off the wall", but I always used RYOBI weed-eater engine oil. It is the dark purple oil in the little 8 oz. bottles, sold at the hardware stores. This type of oil is good for high hour engines as it has very good lubricating properties. I also recommend Pennzoil as it actually has very good lubricating quality as well. How can one tell a good oil from lousy? Here's a simple, yet very affective method. First off, what does it smell like? Does it have a funny detergent like smell? If so, don't use it. If it smells more like an oily kerosene sent, it is probably good, as it is a real oil proven to do the job through time. Next, take a dab and place it on the tip of your index finger. Rub it against your thumb with pressure. If you can feel a slight bit of grip in a start/go slide of finger and thumb, it is a crappy oil. DON'T USE IT! .......Now, if it seems slippery without any grip, you've got a good oil! It is as simple as that. There are likely some other good products out there, and this is a good way to pick them out.

  9. #79
    Team Member zul8tr's Avatar
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    The discussion continues:

    Even though Graham Bell's 2 Stroke Performance Tuning reference is for motor cycles it does contain some real life information on pre mix for 2 cycle engines as well as other techno. Chapter 8 Lubrication and Cooling discusses oil mix ratios vs power and 16:1 in the dyno tests (pg 168) prove to be the best Hp increase ratio for the two race bike 2 stroke engines tested.

    http://iheartstella.com/resources/ma...nce-Tuning.pdf


    No doubt water cooled is cooler running than air cooled but for sustained high rpms Mr. Bell states more oil in needed.
    " Three may keep a secret if two of them are dead" Ben Franklin

    Location: SW Orlando, Fl

  10. #80
    BoatRacingFacts VIP lilwhirlwind's Avatar
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    Klotz Benol

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