Fast Fred's OMC Mod 50 secrets Thread #2

[capnzee]

Hi Fred, We have started a Classic Outboard Runabout Class (COR) of racing boats out here in California. We have already established the COR 2.0 class and have started work on a COR-100 class, featuring the V-4 cross flows. Do you have any experience hot rodding the V-4's that you could share with the COR guys? The engines need to run fast and at the same time last. Basically, we can do about anything to the engines but we must run 4 carbs and 4 venturis (no stinger/strangler front halves). Shifting lower units and exhaust from the mid-section or lower. (rules are on the COR Rules thread further down on this forum). If you can be of help, you may want to start a V-4 thread such as you have here, only under the COR posts. Rod COR Chmn PS Thanks, in advance, for any help you can give us!

[OUTBOARDER]

It's certain that you'd be protested and almost just as certain that you'd be disqualified at an NBRA race if you modified a motor to the extent that the motors in these pictures have been modified. The can't "add material to gain a reed size advantage" rule would get you.

David,
Are the NBRA RULES available "POSTED" somewhere for all to see?
OFFICIAL RULE BOOK where ?
Who is the MOD chief inspector?

Thanks,

Anthony

[OUTBOARDER]

Anthony,

The NBRA rule book isn't online as far as I know. The NBRA isn't structured the same as APBA. We don't really have a "chief inspector" as such.

Thanks Dave,
I will join and ask for a Official NBRA Rule Book.
Whom do I contact?
Regards,
Anthony

[David Mason]

So the consensus is that the class should go on as is until it is gone.


Personally I'd rather see the brilliant innovation and cool tricks continue a bit longer than the current trend suggests.

Sam,

I would not call the 3 or 4 people on this site a consensus. The class is much larger than that.

While I agree with Tim's core philosophy, and think he makes some very cool project motors, it is going away from the core mod concepts. It is heading towards the core Pro concepts. We take stock fishing blocks, do a few mods figure out some porting and pipes and go racing. Once you start cutting up crankcase covers and adding the front covers from a different make or model to increase fuel/air it begins to border on morhping your own creations. Pro is perfect for that. You can build your own engine for petes sake, froma piece of billit. You can do anything you want to as long as you stay within Bore & stroke. You want to run 150MPH in a hydro, go for it in Pro. They have a pretty good system going on race formats and rules. If you think you can't match whits with some Pro guys, then go wildcat.

And Tim, we both know gas and oil will reach speeds well over 100MPH. Should I remind you what you and Rich told me what the GPS was reading in Hillsdale last year ? That is a very very small race course with a lot of turns. If you achieved those speeds there, imagine what it would do on a Dayton sized course.................. And Rich is already teetering on blowing over.

I am seriously against this high tech stuff in 850CCMH in APBA. It will never make it in NBRA. Why do you think AOF made some serious changes to the SEH class 20 years ago ? Because people were being killed by the speed. Yes Tim, this class was going pretty fast back then. It was slowed down. To many people would try to run these fast engines on current spec boats. To small, poor design compared to todays boats.

Sam, Chenney made my case. I know Runne was getting between 6 - 7 K for a FEH engine. When Anthony was building he charged a ton for a 45CI engine that would not beat a decent FEH engine and they broke down a lot, because the engine was not made for that kind of modifications. I know Lopez paid Benson lot of cash to build several engines. You see, speed costs money, in pro you know how fast you can go. Perfect category for people to spend thousands upon thousands in creating works of art that run fast.

In Mod we need to keep the costs down. We are losing racers, and if this trend continues with exotic engines you will see the death of the class in APBA. If that is the consensous, so be it. I won't be a part of it. I know for a fact I am on a tight budget. I also know for a fact I can make exactly what Chenney did. I can do it for around 50 bucks. Find a scrap Hotsu or yamaha front cover from the scrap yard, hack saw it up and weld it, easy stuff. It was done 20 years ago. I also know a lot of what Tim is doing has been done 20 years ago. It was fast then, and it is fast now.

While I think innovation is great, it is not the time for it in APBA 850CCMH racing. It needs to be stopped and soon. If you want a class that will go 100MPH in competition go pro. Leave it out of Mod. As many pointed out, the capsule killed 500CCH in pro to a meger existence it currently is today. It takes a lot of new developments to make a capsule work for each class. It also elminates the class from many venues because the lakes are to shallow..... Hillsdale would be one of them. There is just to many things that need changed before we worry about capsules. if you want to go faster go ahead. I am done beating the dead horse. I can build a friggin 850CCMH engine that will go well voer a 100MPH prolly for a lot less than any one of you. Because I do my own work, and I do have a lot of connections. Do I take advantage of this ? Nope. I can be beat by anyone. I feel the class should die its own death should some try to take this class to 100MPH. It is more than fast enough in the low 90MPH range. it is cheap, easy to build at that speed. We need more racers to get into the sport. You don't build a sport by rasing the bar and making someone send out for fancy mill work and spending thousands on it. Pro has a reputation for speed, and no rules. Mod does not. If you believe it does, you are mistaken.

If this offends anyone, feel free to call me and I can explain it. PM me, email me, it does not matter.

I simply feel the exoctic things done to the class by some folks today are not right and will drive the cost of the class up to th epoint that an average guy can't do it. Tim does great work and is very smart. Why exploit this in Mod ? Use it in Pro.

Chenney, I agree,I have beat the best of the best in 850CCMH/FEH. I have also been beaten by the best. It does not take fancy stuff to win. It takes a good set up and driving skills. Riding skills are best left to pleasure boaters. Race me on ANY 3/4 mile track and you will have a good race. Race me on a 1 mile track or larger and you won't have much of a race. I have a governer on my engines, if the speed reaches 100MPH it limits the revs. I have the insurance agents laptops plugged into the on board computer that monitors my engines performance.

[OUTBOARDER]

Doug Shultz can get you pointed in the right direction. nbranews@yahoo.com

The NBRA SE RULES are on HYDRORACER.NET IN
NBRA Forum. I hope this removes the confusion regarding the actual NBRA SE rules.

Anthony
The 45ss that I built easily beat David Mason
even after the pipe fell off. Did you forget

[David Mason]

The NBRA SE RULES are on HYDRORACER.NET IN
NBRA Forum. I hope this removes the confusion regarding the actual NBRA SE rules.

Anthony
The 45ss that I built easily beat David Mason
even after the pipe fell off. Did you forget

It makes a difference on what engine and prop and set up. I never ever run the good stuff at a local race, it only comes out at Nationals. Local races are jsut that, fun races. And I have no doubt your 45ss could beat a mediocer 850CCMH rig. We all jump the gun now and again.

You still building race engines for the class ? What are you charging these days for a complete powerhead that can whip a OMC 49 cuber ? I know the cost back when you were building before as a few friends ended up with something you sent them. If possible, can you post up cost and time frame between payment and delivery of powerhead ? You might get some bites on what you make, who knows.

[OUTBOARDER]

The NBRA SE RULES are on HYDRORACER.NET IN
NBRA Forum. I hope this removes the confusion regarding the actual NBRA SE rules.

Anthony
The 45ss that I built easily beat David Mason
even after the pipe fell off. Did you forget

Yes it was a fair start and Kenny was there also. He is the BEST to campain the class
in recent history. John passed him on the outside in turn one with a 45 on the back of a 13' hydro.
Do I need to tell the rest?
Regards,
Anthony

[formeone]

i think we all have our better course sizes that we better/faster at... hec i always get beat around here just cause ime always trying something new,,, can usually eek out a top 3 spot,,, but when it comes to records better get out of my way cause that what i am into,,,,,, just as others are into the nats or???? ive seen alot of nats where racers super fast and you would think the'd win but they dont, need alot of luck there,,,,, from what nbra rules look like our new front cases legal!!?? i fired mine on sat... seems ok first time for a finger ported motor and the snowmobile front case for me,,, as ive stated before when i went over 100mph it was just a simple ported and stock front caes motor.. just wateing for a lake to de-thaw now,,, and if way faster or feel stronger will let everyone know,,, my feeling is we need a class in the 90mph range,,, over 100mph prob not,,,, ide be the first to get on the wagon if alot of us start seeing over 100mph,,,, but as i always say to others in this class,,, its not for rookies,,, and if something happens you WILL get hurt cause that a big motor behind us,,,and i do speek from experiance... ie blew over and 4 ribs and a lung later raceing again,,, sounds like alot of people should be bringing there A game to the nats in orville this summer..??

[David Mason]

I will tell the story, and then we should shut up, because you know I know the whole truth. You never did answer the pricing and availablity of your product in question... payment verses delivery of what was promised.....

I blew the gearbox and sat in the middle of the course that race in Franklin PA, on Memorial day. You beat me fair and square. Ken however, was not beat fair and square. I had a front row seat, and I KNOW what happened.

With that, this conversation is over with you. Back to the thread.

We don't need a 100MPH 850CCMH class. We don't want capsules. It will kill the class. It needs to be affordable to the average person wanting to race. Keep it under a $3000.00 rig and it will grow. This is very possible if you buy a used rig. If you have to farm it out it can get costly. But we need to keep Mod's affordable. Once they get good at Mod they can step into pro, kind of a natural progression. That is where the true engine builders are that like to create new engines, or revamp one and morph on parts like Rave Valves, or front covers from another engine to improve air and fuel, etc. Maybe it is time for someone serious to be on the commission and establish the rules for the class who races the class.

My opinion, Chenney's front cover should not be legal. The front halves Tim makes should not be legal. While both are great ideas and i applaud the efforts and realize the gains you are trying to achieve, it will kill the class. Who likes to race against themselves......

[formeone]

you guys talking apba or aof or nbra??? since i went 104 mph in 97,,,, i dont think much has progressed in the class as a hole in the 12 years past, only this last year a couple people trying new things,,, and as of yet have not cracked 100mph officialy,,, sooo lets seee what develops... and keep our eye's open so we can make recomendations this next winter,,,